Barisan "the Old", 1st lord of Ibelin - Origins of Bailan le François

Livio Scremin : They messed up big time. It is now spaghetti genealogia with no sauce. I totally agree wasn't it easier to add the missing profile above rather than below?
So as not to have to move all the info, JPG tex tag wife children .. and the usual ADMN blunders?

The Ibelin tree is now messed up Customer Service : Please revert to original prior to today's changes. If not, its an accurate tree on Geni against evidence of facts.

Sharon Doubell: My lovely, nothing personal with due respect of facts. Nothing comes easy in this world. Find the name of the publication yourself as an expert and make the changes when appropriate. I am not caring anymore as I tried to help. :) Cheers

Sharon Doubell: I am not using secondary sources. You keep twisting this? Make an effort and investigate the name of the source for yourself, nothing comes easy in this world. The authority of being a curator implies that you have this skill to differentiate primary from secondary sources and beyond. Until such time, let everyone using Geni see an inaccuarate tree. There was no need to change the perfect tree of the ibelin family as mentioned in the above primary evidence (which is a challenge for you to investigate, if possible). Shame, that the tree is inaccurate and users will not benefit. As a Professor who served in academia, its imperative that I understand much more then vehement or insulting statements of no relevance to me. :) I repeat: Find the name of the publication yourself as an expert and make the changes when appropriate. I am not caring anymore as I tried to help. :) Cheers

Sharon Doubell: My love;y, same here, nothing personal with due respect to facts taken. Hope you find a copy of the publication which is 600+ pages. Lots to read. Love you. God bless

and you end it all with kisses and hugs, but I, poor spaghetti eater, didn't understand who the hell was supposed to be isolated with my info about inside >.<

Livio Scremin : Let us see if Customer Service is sensible and does the right thing for the above. kisses and hugs to you too bro.

Erica Howton : Many thanks for making the effort on quoting (Riley-Smith, Jonathan, The First Crusaders, 1095-1131, Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, 1997. Page 172.) Riley.

This will help you and Sharon Doubell if you read the full book to understand the arguments as multiple theories of discussions by Riley, which is always good for brainstorming. As you may have noted, this is a publication in 1997 which was the first to challenge the facts that Bailan le Francois was not the son of Hugh I of Le Puiset (died 23 December 1094), son of Everard I of Breteuil and his wife Humberge. Riley made a bold statement in 1997 against the re-produced publication of 1915 from 13th century manuscripts (that he had not come across then in 1997) and produced no evidence to prove the theory that he called myth as pointed out by you from his statement in the publication of year 1997. Later Riley-Smith speculates that Barisan may have been the illegitimate brother or brother-in-law of Gilduin in the same publication [ref: Riley-Smith, Jonathan. The First Crusaders. pp. 172–173] but there is little evidence to support these theories as well in year 1997.

Further, regarding Gilduin of Le Puiset: --> Gilduin of Le Puiset (d. between 1130 and 1135) and Riley claiming never existed. Well Guildin existed and he is documented as was the son of Hugh I of Le Puiset and Alice of Montlhéry, daughter of Guy I of Montlhéry. Monk at St. Martin-des-Champs, prior at Cluny Abbey, prior at Lurey-le-Bourg, abbot of St. Mary of the Valley of Jehosaphat. [Ref: Riley-Smith, Jonathan (1997). The First Crusaders. pp. 169–170]. Further, Gilduin became abbot of St. Mary, and was in this position when his cousin Baldwin II confirmed the privileges of the abbey, the chief Marian shrine in Jerusalem, on 31 January 1120. He was also documented in Families d'outre mer: as Viscount de Chartres (duration not specified, could be for a week or less - no idea). There is also a document of the year 1028 that states the above and this is referenced in the 1915 re-produced publication.

I suggest to reorganise the Ibelin tree to its original form for accuracy as users are going to have wrong information and connections with the mess created yesterday by multiple MP (main profiles) of same person and represented in two generations without evidence to substantiate those profiles.

I hope the above helps a little bit. :)

*1028 -> *1128

Erica Howton

The Lignages d'Outremer describe the pedigrees of the most important Crusader families. A first version was written in 1270 and is available in two manuscripts of the 14th century. A later version was produced in 1307/08, another in Italian, 1398.

Jonathan Simon Christopher Riley-Smith (27 June 1938 – 13 September 2016) was a historian of the Crusades,[1] and, between 1994 and 2005, Dixie Professor of Ecclesiastical History at Cambridge.[2] He was a Fellow of Emmanuel College, Cambridge.[3]

Publication of 1270 v/s Publication of 1997.

Make up your mind.

Riley-Smith is no authority. Just a member of staff from a university that has a famous name who argued his opinions without evidence but multiple theories in 1997 against publications of primary sources from 1270.

Publication of 1270 v/s Publication of 1997.

Make up your mind to convince with primary sources and facts of near the time of the events and substantiated evidence within those (such as Publication of 1270). Not to be compared with some modern so called authority by yourself who for the purpose of publications, fundings, "research studies" brings out theories in 1997 and later. You know how academia works now-a-days (Publication of 1997).

Erica Howton and Sharon Doubell : Please see from page 360 of the below. I am afraid it may be in a foreign language to you both but try and use some translator or help from such for accurate understanding. The source is from the 13th century and not 20th century.

God bless.

https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k6215989c/f378.image.r=guildin

I appreciate your last statement Erica Howton. I am of the opinion that there are no current authorities on this apart from the primary sources that clearly inform the facts that dictate the tree as it was perfectly drawn on Geni prior to 27 Feb 2025. i.e. before Sharon Doubell made those unnecessary changes and created mulyple main profiles (MP). Until current authorities are found, i suggest Customer Serviceto revert back the genealogical tree to its original form prior to 27 feb 2025 of the Ibelin family as the descendants/users in current time will learn and see wrong information/inaccurate details. God bless

I'm really sorry but we have a much more serious problem T.T

(C) is confusing, modified and blocked: Baudouin I, Lord of Rama
as the same: Baldwin I, King of Jerusalem

I also know how and why:
one was confirmed by the other.
but reading and copying the MLs so quickly without understanding...

-http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/JERUSALEM%20NOBILITY.htm#BaudouinIR...

1. BAUDOUIN [I] (-[Feb/Dec] 1138). Lord of Rama [Rames]. Baudouin I King of Jerusalem confirmed donations to the church of St Marie, Josaphat by charter dated to [1115],

-http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/JERUSALEM%20NOBILITY.htm#BaudouinIR...

1. BAUDOUIN [I] (-[Feb/Dec] 1138). Lord of Rama [Rames]. {point, at the head, new sentence}
Baudouin I King of Jerusalem confirmed donations to the church of St Marie, Josaphat by charter dated to [1115],

Livio Scremin : I saw that too. I don't know why such quick changes. A curator needs to read, understand, go through in detail, appreciate the connections, etc. Here quick changes have messed up the tree. :( Not Good.

-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_of_Jerusalem
but if you want to add another one to the list, you are free to do so :D
I have seen more than I ever hoped to see :*

_________
:O Baudouin I, Lord of Rama another profile that I had highlighted with my white JPG, Jan 28,
JPG that quickly highlighted profiles containing multimedia links to documentation, with explanatory title and description.
In the author field the maximum expression of the summary: "wanted JPG"
{a sort of invitation and placeholder for tree colorists to find them a more personalized JPG.}
deleted with all its TAGS by.. who knows but only Customer Service can :))