Barisan "the Old", 1st lord of Ibelin - Origins of Bailan le François

Goselin V de Lèves, Seigneur de Lèves

Guacelin V de Lèves
Gender: Male
Birth: estimated between 1065 and 1091
Death: circa 30 September 1151
Immediate Family:
Son of Gaucelin IV de Lèves and Odeline du Puiset
Husband of Lucie .... de Lèves

Odeline du Puiset

Goselin V de Lèves, Seigneur de Lèves Is, I believe, a duplicate of Goselin V de Lèves, Seigneur de Lèves

Goselin III married twice, 1) Odeline 2) Lucie, according to Europaische Stammtafeln, by Wilhelm Karl, Prinz zu Isenburg, Vol. XIII, Tafel 123. (see https://our-royal-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com/p2869.htm... & also http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Leves-Gallardon.pdf)

Ah, I see - she is confirmed as the wife here: https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/cfrachacha.htm#HuguesIBreteuilChar...

Merging

Sorry, Erica - cross-posted.

Gauzlin (Gosselin) III de Lèves + dès 1151 seigneur de Lèves
ép. 1) Odeline
ép. 2) Lucie + dès 1120

(Son of Gosselin II d. 1107 & Elisabeth)

http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Leves-Gallardon.pdf

There’s a bit of confusion at https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/cfrachacha.htm#WaleranPuisetdied11... Re: Odeline du Puiset

Cawley describes her husband as GAUCELIN [IV] Seigneur de Lèves, son of GAUCELIN [III] Seigneur de Lèves & his wife Ada --- (-before 2 Nov 1107).

However, the Gausfred who married Ada d. 1082 and was the father of Gosslin II d. 1107 m. Elisabeth.

I funk Odeline might be the same as Gosselin III’s 1st wife Odeline.

I funk = I think

Oops.

Crusaders! The White Ship!

This is getting fun.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_the_Red_of_Pont-Echanfray

Ralph married a daughter, name unknown, of Odeline of Le Puiset and Joscelin of Lèves. Ralph's wife accompanied him on his second crusade, dying in 1109, probably in Byzantium. Odeline was the granddaughter of Guy I of Montlhéry. Ralph’s wife was the sister of Hugh I of Jaffa, whose son Hugh II was also a Crusader. They may have had a son (unverified): … As a widower, it is believed that he remarried, but no specific information is available on his possible second wife. Ralph drowned in the White Ship disaster[2] on 25 November 1120, which may indicate some relationship with the aristocracy of England, particularly given his comradery with the king's son.

Sources

• Riley-Smith, Jonathan, The First Crusaders, 1095-1131, Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, 1997
• Orderic Vitalis. The ecclesiastical history of Orderic Vitalis. edited and translated with introduction and notes by Marjorie Chibnall.
• Farrer, W. (1919). "An Outline Itinerary of King Henry the First".

Odeline du Puiset

ODELINE du Puiset (-<2 Nov 1107)
d/o HUGUES [I] "Blavons" de Breteuil, Vicomte de Chartres & ALIX de Montlhéry
x GAUCELIN [IV] Seigneur de Lèves, s/o GAUCELIN [III] Seigneur de Lèves & Ada (<2 Nov 1107)

• GAUCELIN [V] *NN *GEOFFROY *HUGUES *NN

Ah, I’m wrong.

Look at the chart for Leves (Origines) on page 2.

http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Leves-Gallardon.pdf

Looks like a different branch.

Gauzlin I ep Humberge
Gauzlin II ep 2) Adele
Gauzlin III ep Odeline dit du Puiset
Gauzlin IV + 1151; ? de Leves ep Raoul Le Rouge; Geoffroi III; Hughes de Leves
Gauzlin V + 1145; Milon de Leves (archidiacre de Chartres)

Regarding

I don't think "Cawley describes her [Odeline's] husband as GAUCELIN [IV] Seigneur de Lèves, son of GAUCELIN [III] Seigneur de Lèves & his wife Ada --- (-before 2 Nov 1107)."

I see this for Gaucelin IV, de Lèves

GAUCELIN [IV] de Lèves (-<2 Nov 1107)
s/o GAUCELIN [III] [le Riche] de Lèves & Elisabeth
x ODELINE du Puiset

• GAUCELIN [V]
• [NN
• GEOFFROY
• HUGUES
• ?NN

https://www.geni.com/projects/Wreck-of-the-White-Ship-la-Blanche-Nef-1120/24

Ralph le Roux

Missing his wife!

Well I know I've already irritated the living :-)

Wait - that’s the wrong Ralph.

Not to be confused with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_the_Red_of_Pont-Echanfray

ahh - I see where Cawley (makes a TYPO?) - I've replicated it in Odeline's CN

Will change

Ada or Elizabeth?

Private User

with respect - it's you who aren't producing transcriptions of the 13th C primary sources here - which is making it difficult to debate. Cawley is citing these primary sources - Your image doesn't. You writing 'published and accepted by academic approval' isn't a source. The same is true of Cawley.

I'm waiting for those transcriptions to be able to have a discussion about the two versions.

Cawley is covering a different de Leves branch. No wonder we’re confused.

Here’s our drowned crusader who was misidentified as an illegitimate De Lacy (born a generation later).

Ralph the Red of Pont-Echanfray

I set him up as son of … de Pont-Echanfrey because we do not know which brother he was the son of. Cawley however seems confident in his origins.

http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORMANDY%20NOBILITY.htm#GuillaumePo...

Of this all makes sense now, please cúrate.

Rob is referencing this:

and

I’ve been following http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Leves-Gallardon.pdf so just now seeing Odile & the Puisants. It’s earlier than the ref given.