Malicious users

Kjeld Vennike Hansen -

Re: "Joan repeatedly removes me as Manager from profiles that I have created"
Unless there is a Bug, or an incorrect connection, Joan can only remove someone as a Manager of a Profile if both the following are true:
1) she is in the Max Family of the Profile
AND
2) the Manager she is removing is not in the Max Family of the Profile

See: https://help.geni.com/hc/en-us/articles/229704067-What-are-my-manag...
"For profiles of people closely related to you, you can add yourself as a manager and you can remove managers who are not closely related to that profile, by clicking on the "x" next to their name."
"closely related to you" here means in your Max Family, a Geni Term meaning basically back to 3rd great grandfather and out tourth Cousin, and current spouse of each.

Geni has purposely programmed it this way.

Who created the Profile is irrelevant.
Please Note - for Public Profiles -
As long as you "Follow" the Profiles you should still be able to Monitor them.
And you can still add Documents, etc.

Some people do not care who is a manager of their relatives, some are thrilled to see them managed by somebody who cares, some object . if they object, it is their right, per Geni rules, to remove them if they are not also in the Profile's Max Family.
It is possible if there are other folks in Joan's Max Family and not in yours that you are Primary Manager of -- perhaps if you offer to make her Primary Manager she will see no reason to remove you as a Manager.
(You do that in Manager options, click Add Manager and enter her even tho she already is a Manager - then you get the option to make her Primary (if and only if you currently Primary)
If you are able to send her a Message, you might do so and ask if that would satisfy her.
If you do not see "Send Message" on her Profile, then there is Blocking going on. Do not know if that will affect your ability to make her Primary or not.

bother -- should say "great grandparent" not "great grandfather"

Lois,

Thanks for your response. I am also a member of MyHeritage. That membership allows me to match documents and other family trees. As a Manager of a profile in Geni, I can use those MyHeritage matches to record the documents in Profiles in Geni. I can only do that as a Manager. I cannot do that as a Follower! Perhaps you can do that as a Curator?

I also do not get notified when someone removes me as Manager.

At first, I welcomed Joan Kari Marcussen to Geni and honored her many requests to be a Manager. Then she started to make many mistakes and entered incorrect information. Others would not honor her requests to be a Manager. Then she would create a duplicate sibling and merge that sibling with a profile just so she could be a Manager! In doing that she made mistakes. She once merged a grandson with a grandfather! She merged a daughter of Niels Frandsen Bruun with her deceased older sister because she liked the photo of the deceased older sister and then we lost information that took weeks of my research in old archives. I can go on and on with these transgressions. Others have also complained.

Recently I was helping Torben Bjørk with his relatives and his ancestors. I put many of his relatives in Geni and was documenting my research when Joan suddenly removed me as Manager and named herself as Primary Manager! She has done this in the past more than 100 times! Now I cannot insert documents from Myheritage matches in those profiles.

I could ask the relatives to add me as Manager, but she would again remove me because she has declared herself as Primary Manager.

Sorry about my complaints, but this has been frustrating.

Sincerely,
Kjeld Vennike Hansen

Kjeld Vennike Hansen

I am NOT a Curator. I have been on Geni since 2007 and am pretty compulsive about trying to keep up with their changing rules and policies.

Joan cannot choose to make herself Primary Manager. But if she removes the other Managers ahead of her in Geni's ordering, then she will become Primary Manager.
She can choose to make herself a Manager of any Profile in her Max Family. No need for her to ask anybody else to add her. Your choice whether or not you choose to add her as Manager of other Profiles.
Whether or not Customer Service will see creating a duplicate as a sibling and then merging as a misuse of Geni Services or etc. - I have given up trying to read their minds.
Once upon a time, repeatedly doing that would have been seen as wrong, and the person doing it scolded and/or penalized. Now - no idea.

The fact she is Primary has nothing to do with her ability to remove you. One can remove folks as Manager of a relative's Profile without even being a Manager of that Profile, never mind Primary

To succeed in getting Customer Service to take action, it is probably better if you understand which actions Geni purposely programmed in for her to be able to do, which actions you mistakenly think you see happening, and which actions are probably her taking advantage of the ability to create duplicates just to merge and so become a manager.
Although, as I said - I have no idea if they still see that as an offense. Hopefully you can find that out and let us know.

Kjeld Vennike Hansen -
As for Documents. Perhaps we are miscommunicating.

You said "I am also a member of MyHeritage. That membership allows me to match documents and other family trees. As a Manager of a profile in Geni, I can use those MyHeritage matches to record the documents in Profiles in Geni. I can only do that as a Manager. I cannot do that as a Follower! Perhaps you can do that as a Curator?"

Documents on Geni are uploaded to and found in the Media Tab.
You can download a Document from MyHeritage and upload as a Document to any Profile on Geni that you can edit. No need to be a Manager.

I think you are maybe talking about confirming Smart Matches?
Doing that allows those with both a Geni Pro Account AND a MyHeritage Data Base Account to see the records attached to the Profile on MyHeritage. Anyone else cannot see those documents, and just gets an Ad to make a purchase.
Confirming a Smart Match does not "record the documents in Profiles in Geni".
Nor does confirming a Record Match.
In my view, those are just Geni's way to get Geni users to try to force other Geni Users to spend money on Geni or MyHeritage.

As for " I can only do that as a Manager." - i know that is not true for Confirming Smart Matches or Record Matches. So are you talking about something else or??

---
Being a "Follower" means one gets notifications of changes, same as Managers get. That was the only one of your problems it addresses.
No, one is not notified when one is removed as a Manager. That is purposeful on Geni's part. I know of no way to remove someone as a just Follower of an non Geni User Profile.
Do not know if removing as a Manager, if that also removes as a Follower.if the person was both.

i know for a fact folks who were not Managers of Profiles I manage have approved Smart Matches and/or Record Matches on various of them.

Do not know for those who were not Managers, if in every Case they were in the Profile's Max Family. Or were Curators? It had not occurred to me that was necessary, but I do not know.
I never confirm either Smart Matches or Record Matches.

Lois,

Perhaps there is a misunderstanding between you and me.

I will use a profile as an example. I recently put this profile in Geni:

https://www.geni.com/family-tree/index/6000000206460216839

He is my 7th cousin, but a close relative to someone I was helping.

I entered his vital information and then proceeded entering more of his relatives.

Then Joan Karin Marcussen made herself a Manager. Then she made herself Primary Manager and removed me as Manager.

Then 2 others were made Managers.

I, of course, was not notified of these changes. I still am a Follower of the Profile.

I went back to the Profile to complete my research with Census matches and discovered I could no longer Record Match with the census and have the census automatically put into the profile. That's when I discovered I had been removed as Manager for this profile and the other relatives I had just put in Geni. Only as Manager am I allowed to match source documents and have them automatically be put into the profile. I cannot do that as a Follower. So, I lost my chance to properly document these profiles.

Joan has requested to be a Manager of my close relatives and I originally consented. But she started to insert misinformation. I informed her about her mistakes. Unfortunately, she proceeded to create havoc in Geni. I again asked her to be careful. She became upset and removed me from hundreds of profiles that I managed. Then I no longer honored her requests to be a Manager of the profiles I manage. Then she became abusive and started to add duplicate siblings and then merging the siblings, so she could be Manager. Even then she made mistakes. I objected to a Curator and he admonished her.

I could easily start a Geni war and have closer relatives remove her as Manager. I know many are very upset about her actions. But that is not in my nature, and I cherish Geni for its potential as an accurate world family tree to be available for us and for future generations.

I have invited hundreds to Geni and know they appreciate discovering their ancestors and missing relatives.

Glad to know you still stayed a Follower. That should mean you still get notifications of changes the same as you would if you were a Manager.
No, you do not get notifications of changes to who is a Manager. Notifications of that are not sent out to anyone.
You should get notifications of updates, merges, additions of siblings, parents, children, spouses.

---

Using the push-pin, I see Joan is that Profile's "second cousin twice removed", so yes, in that Profile's Max Family
You are that Profile's "second cousin once removed's husband's great nephew" - so not in that Profile's Max Family.

Joan first added herself as a Manager. That left you as Primary Manager, her as a Co-Manager. BUT I see according to order in Revision Tab, GENI then made her Primary Manager. And then she Removed you as a Manager.
That is a change from what I have seen before. -- BUT --
Added myself as a Manager to a Profile in my Max Family, where the Sole Manager before was not in the Max Family - I just became a co-Manager. And no choice was given to become Primary. I did not want to remove him, do know if I did, I would become Primary - am guessing -- Possibly it is just being reported in the wrong order, and really she became Primary upon removing you as a Manager? Not sure, interesting. Geni keeps changing. But can imagine no reason she should be treated differently when adding herself as a Manager than I am when adding myself as a Manager.

---

Re: "Only as Manager am I allowed to match source documents and have them automatically be put into the profile."

You are talking about Confirming Record Matches. NOT about adding Documents.

I NEVER Confirm Record Matches or Smart Matches.
Confirming them does not add the Documents to Geni. It just teases folks who have not already paid a lot of money to try to get them to pay a lot of money so they can see the records elsewhere.

I ROUTINELY ADD DOCUMENTS WHEN NOT A MANAGER. So I know one is not prevented
from doing that.
No you did not lose your "chance to properly document these profiles".
I think it would be much better if you were to download the records from MyHeritage and then Upload them to Geni, rather than Confirming Record Matches (or as well as, where that is an option, if you really like to do that).
But repeating - No you did not lose your "chance to properly document these profiles".

--

To try to figure out what you were talking about, I clicked on the brown box for Record Matches shown on that Profile.
It took me (after I had to log in to my MyHeritage Account on this machine), to the Record, which I was then able to download, and upload to Geni. Which I did. Have not yet looked and tagged the other folks to it.

Tried clicking on the Brown Box for Record Match on a Profile where I am a Manager.
Saw it also gave me
"Record Match
Confirm this match to add this record to Rebecca Finkelstein's Geni profile.
If this match is incorrect, reject it"
Which I did not see on the one you linked to.
I take it that is what you are talking about -- yes?
I then tried from a Profile in my Max Family but where I was not a Manager -- got that choice there as well.
Also got that choice where I was not a Manager, it was not in my Max Family, but a Manager of it is in my Family Group.
So it is NOT restricted to only Managers.

Have you tried going to Help and suggesting they make that a possibility for everyone, not just managers and folks in the Max Family of the Profile? Or at least, for everyone who is a Pro.
I would much rather see this changed, then see Geni eliminate the ability to remove non-family as a Manager of a relative's profile.
I have no idea why they are doing this. Since I believe folks should add the actual records, it does not bother me overly. But I think I do now know what you are talking about.

--
Does she know you like to Confirm Record Matches, and removing you as a Manager Prevents you from doing that?
Would she be willing to leave you as Manager if she could do so and still be Primary Manager?

And/or can you get Geni to stop restricting who can confirm Record Matches?

Apologies for being so wordy above, but have now figured out that to Confirm a Record match for a Profile you must be at least one of
a Manager of the Profile
in the Profile's Max Family
in the Family Group of one of the Managers of the Profile

In the Help section on Record Matches, they say "Record Matches are historical records that match the individuals in your family tree" -- and "finds matching historical records for your family tree" -- so sounds like it was just meant to be for those in your Max Family, then got expanded to two other categories?
https://help.geni.com/hc/en-us/articles/229707527-What-are-Record-M...

Kjeld Vennike Hansen -
maybe this would help for what matters most to you:
If you have folks within your Family Group who are within the Max Family of that a relevant Profile where this is happening --
have them add themself as a Manager of the Profile

Joan will not be able to remove them, because they are in the Profile's Max Family (it does not matter which of them is closer)
AND because they are a Manager of the Profile AND in your Family Group, you be able to confirm Record Matches even if you are not a Manager of the profile

(also - you are able to add anyone you want to your Family Group, if you want - and they accept -- just be aware, anyone in your Family Group can edit all the Private Profiles you manage, and you can manage all the Private profiles they manage)

Lois,

Thanks for all your efforts. I deeply appreciate your input and I have learned from this discussion.
The rules have changed a little bit over the years.

I just want the information in the profiles and the connected relatives in Geni to be correct.