Robert de Lisures

Keats-Rohan, K.S.B. Domesday Descendants: A Prosopography of Persons Occurring in English Documents 1066-1166. II Pipe Rolls to Cartae Baronum. The Boydell Press, 2002. p. 553.

From Medlands

ROBERT de Lisours ([<1120?]- >1167)
x AUBREYE de Lacy, d/o ROBERT de Lacy & Matilda

• AUBREYE de Lisours ([<1145?]->Sep 1200)
  

x RICHARD FitzEustache, s/o EUSTACHE FitzJohn & Agnes (-1163)
xx WILLIAM de Clairfait (-1168)
xxx GEOFFREY de Cauz s/o ROBERT [I] de Cauz & Isabel de Ferrers (-[<12 Nov 1177])
xxxx ([1178]) WILLIAM FitzGodric, s/o GODRIC

There is some chronological difficulty with the parentage of Robert de Lisours. The name “Lisours” suggests a connection with Fulk de Lisours who is named above. However, given the death of his daughter’s first husband in 1163 (see below), it is difficult to imagine Robert being born later than 1120 at the latest. If that is correct, he could not have been Fulk’s son by his known wife Alix d’Auberville, given that the latter was declared as 50 years old in 1185 (see above). This affiliation would only seem to work if Alix’s age was under-declared by at least 30 years, which seems impossible if she had three unmarried daughters still of marriageable age in 1185. Three possible solutions are suggested:

(1) Robert was Fulk’s son by an earlier marriage, although that would mean that Fulk himself was born much earlier than appears consistent with the chronology of the Engaine family.

(2) Robert was the son of Vitalis [I] Engaine.

(3) Robert was a member of the previous Lisours family, maybe a relative of the supposed wife of Vitalis [I].

1. ROBERT de Lisours ([before 1120?]-after 1167). The Red Book of the Exchequer refers to "Robertus de Lisures i m" in Huntingdonshire in [1167/68][57]. m AUBREYE de Lacy, daughter of ROBERT de Lacy & his wife Matilda ---. According to The Complete Peerage, Aubreye de Lisours, successor of Robert de Lacy was his cousin[58], implying that her mother was Robert’s paternal aunt. This appears to be confirmed by the 1130 Pipe Roll which records "Robt de Lusor" in Nottinghamshire, Derbyshire and that he married "sorore Ilbti de Laci"[59]. An apparently different version of Aubreye’s parentage is provided by a manuscript history of the Lacy family which records that “Albreda vel Aubreia, filia Roberti Lisours, soror ex parte matris” succeeded on the death of “Robertus Lacy”[60]. If this is correct, Aubreye’s father was the [first/second] husband of Robert de Lacy’s mother. As the husband of Aubrey junior died in 1163, the chronology suggests that, if this version is correct, it is more probable that Aubreye was the daughter of her mother’s first marriage. It appears from the 1130 Pipe Roll that the Complete Peerage version is to be preferred. Robert & his wife had one child: AUBREYE de Lisours ([before 1145?]-after Sep 1200). A manuscript history of the Lacy family records that “Albreda vel Aubreia, filia Roberti Lisours, soror ex parte matris” succeeded on the death of “Robertus Lacy” and that she married “Richardus constabularius Cestriæ”[61]. Domesday Descendants records her second marriage but does not cite the corresponding primary source[62]. Her third marriage is confirmed by the charter dated 12 Nov 1177 under which the Templars and “Radulfum filium Stephani” settled a dispute concerning “unam carucatam terre in Roueston” which “Galfridus de Cauz” had given to “Albrede de Lisuriis uxori sue in dotem” and “terram que fuit Roberti fratris Gaufridi de Cauz in Ruueston”[63]. "Willelmus filius Godrici" paid a fine for his marriage with "matre Johannis constabularii" in 1178[64]. A charter dated 1194 records a final agreement relating to a dispute between “Albredam de Lisores et Rogerum constabularium Cestrie nepotem suum” concerning the land of “Roberti de Lasci”, also naming “Roberti de Lisores patris ipsius Albrede” and “Willelmus filius prefate Albrede”[65]. m firstly RICHARD FitzEustache, son of EUSTACHE FitzJohn & his second wife Agnes --- (-1163). m secondly as his second wife, WILLIAM de Clairfait, son of --- (-1168). m thirdly GEOFFREY de Cauz, son of ROBERT [I] de Cauz & his wife Isabel de Ferrers (-[before 12 Nov 1177]). m fourthly ([1178]) WILLIAM FitzGodric, son of GODRIC & his wife ---.

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