Robert de Condet (Cundy), Lord of Thorngate

Robert de CONDET [Parents] 1, 2 was born 1106 in Wickhambreux, Kent, England. He died 10 Oct 1141 in South Carlton, Lincolnshire, England. Robert married Adeliza la MESCHIN on 1137 in South Carlton, Lincolnshire, England.

Adeliza la MESCHIN [Parents] 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 was born 1099 in Gernon Castle, Normandie, France. She married Robert de CONDET on 1137 in South Carlton, Lincolnshire, England.

   Other marriages:

CLARE, Richard FitzGilbert de
They had the following children:

     		M 	i 	Roger de CONDET was born 1138 and died 1201.

M ii Robert de CONDET 1 was born 1139 in South Carlton, Lincolnshire, England.
F iii Isabel de CONDET was born 1141.
Sources:

1Weis, Frederick Lewis, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America before 1700 (7th ed., Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co., 1992.), 132D-27, 246B-25, Los Angeles Public Library, Gen 974 W426 1992.

2Cokayne, George Edward, The Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant, Extinct, or Dormant (London: St. Catherine Press, 1910.), 3:243, 7:672, Los Angeles Public Library, 929.721 C682.

Searching for Lincoln’s second castle by Cory Santos

A few weeks ago, I wrote a column concerning the Battles of Lincoln and how pivotal a role the city played in the political scene of English medieval history. After the article was published, a reader, Phil Gresham, contacted The Lincolnite noting that he had come across evidence for a second castle in Lincoln, the ‘Castellum de Torngate’ - Thorngate Castle, and asking if I could provide any new insight to the great information he had amassed. What was this supposed second castle and what do we know of its short history?

The origins of the castle on Thorngate are obscure. The first real evidence of the castle at Thorngate appears in the title of one Robert de Cundy - de Condet who was ‘Lord of Thorngate Castle’ as well as Lord of South Carlton, Eagle and Skellingthorpe, and Thurlby, as well as of several other locations in Kent and Nottinghamshire. The birth date for Robert is up for debate, with dates ranging from 1096 to 1108. He is, however, listed as being born within the castle, so the construction date must therefore be before 1100 A.D.

The pre-1100 construction of the castle seems to point towards a late 1080s building of the fortification. The exact date, however, is difficult, if not impossible, to fix. The reasons for this are the hectic and ever-changing political and security situation of ‘The Anarchy’ - scores of castles and defensive works were built in the period, as well as the poor keeping of records prior to the reign of Henry II and his successor Richard I. During his reign, King Henry II ordered the destruction of over 1,150 castles in his realm. Despite the demolition of this staggering number of fortifications, by the end of Henry’s rule there appear to be more castles in existence than before he took the throne. This seemingly paradoxical fact can be traced back to the poor, or even non-recording of castles during the reigns of the previous several monarchs after William the Conqueror.

What little information we do have about Thorngate Castle can be of some help to trace the lifespan of the structure. It is attested to in 1141, when Alice de Cundy, Thomas’ widow pledged the castle, along with her estates in Lincolnshire, Nottinghamshire and Kent to the cause of King Stephen. With the known destruction of the castle by King Stephen in 1151, this seems to point to the castle remaining within the hands of the de Cundy family for its entire existence. Why though, was the castle destroyed?

The destruction of the castle was pledged to the Earl of Chester, Ranulf de Gurnon. The Earl had opposed Stephen at the battle of Lincoln in 1141 but had switched allegiance to the king in 1144 in order to wage war with the Empress Matilda’s ally, the King of Scotland, over a land dispute. He revolted against the king again, however, in 1146 and tried to seize Lincoln in 1149 under the guise of supporting Matilda’s son, the Prince Henry. It appears as a result of an attempted peace brokering between Stephen and the Earl of Chester, the Thorngate Castle was used as a bargaining chip and its destruction ordered.

The site of the castle today appears to be located around the corner of Waterside North and Broadgate, and as it was a wooden structure; most likely nothing remains of it under the present building’s foundations. Even though the castle has long since disappeared from sight, it brings a sense of wonder when passing the Waterside area of what the city could have looked like had Lincoln kept its second castle.

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Condet-2

Sir Robert "Lord of Thorngate" de Condet formerly Condet aka de Condé
Born about 1106 in Thorngate Castle, Lincoln, Lincolnshire, England
ANCESTORS
Son of Osbert (Condet) de Condet and Adelaide (Chesney) de Condet
[sibling%28s%29 unknown]
Husband of Adeliza (Meschines) de Condet — married [date unknown] [location unknown]
DESCENDANTS
Father of Isabel (Condet) Bardolf
Died 10 Oct 1141 at about age 35 in Thorngate Castle, Lincoln, Lincolnshire, England
PROBLEMS/QUESTIONSProfile manager: PE Rosner
Profile last modified 23 Jan 2021
Created 21 Feb 2011

Biography
In 1130 Robert de Condé accounted in Kent and in Sussex for an agreement with the bishop of Lincoln, and in Lincolnshire for the land of his father. His parentage is unknown, though it is usually suggested that he was a descendant of Emma Crispin (aunt of Robert I Malet) and Peter de Condé. He married Alice or Adelicia, probably the daughter of Ranulf I of Chester and in 1136 widow of Gilbert fitz Richard de Clare (major, Linq. Reg. Antiq. i, pp. 282ff0. At his death on a 10 October sometime between 1139 and 1145 his minor son Roger was his heir. Probably father also of a son Robert (q.v.). His fee was a composite granted sometime after 1086, consisting of land in Wickhambreux, Kent, South Carlton, Grimston, Thurlby and Eagle, and Skellingthorpe, Lincolnshire.

Sources
Gen-Medieval archives - posting of Rosie Bevan on 5 Feb 2004 re: ncestry of Agnes de Condet/Cundy, wife of Walter de Clifford (Ref: Domesday Descendants, p. 425)
Weis, Frederick Lewis, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America before 1700 (7th ed., Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co., 1992.), 132D-27, 246B-25, Los Angeles Public Library, Gen 974 W426 1992.
Cokayne, George Edward, The Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant, Extinct, or Dormant (London: St. Catherine Press, 1910.), 3:243, 7:672, Los Angeles Public Library, 929.721 C682.