Raoul IV de Tosny, de Conches

Raoul (Ralph) IV de De Tosny / Toni / Toeni, Seigneur de Conches-en-Ouche, Seigneur de Tosny (died 1126)

son of Raoul III de Tosny and Isabelle de Montfort

married Adelisa of Huntingdon (dau of Waltheof)

At least 8 children:

-Roger III de Tosny m. Gertrude (Ida) de Hainaut

-Hugues

-Simon

-Isabelle m Walter FitzRichard de Clare

-Margaret m Walter FitzRichard de Clifford

-several daughters whose names are not known

http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORMAN%20NOBILITY.htm#_Toc218752194

RAOUL [IV] de Tosny (-[1126], bur Conches Saint-Pierre). A charter of Henry II King of England confirmed donations to “ecclesiæ sancti Petri Castellionis” by “Rogerus senior de Toenio et filius eius Radulphus senex, et Radulphus juvenis, filius Radulphi prædicti senis, et Rogerus filius Radulphi juvenis” by undated charter. He succeeded his father in [1102] as Seigneur de Tosny.

m (1103) ADELISA of Huntingdon, daughter of WALTHEOF Earl of Huntingdon & his wife Judith de Lens [Boulogne] ([1073/76]-after [1126]). Her parentage is recorded by Orderic Vitalis, who also gives her marriage and names her two sons and indicates she had "several daughters" without naming them. Guillaume de Jumièges records that Judith daughter of Waltheof & his wife married "Raoul de Ternois". Ingulph's Chronicle of the Abbey of Croyland records the marriage of Alice younger daughter of Judith and "Rodolph de Tournay", her dowry being "the lordship of Wilchamstowe". She inherited Walthamstow, Essex. Raoul [IV] & his wife had [eight or more] children:

a) ROGER [III] de Tosny ([1104]-after 29 Sep 1158). A charter of Henry II King of England confirmed donations to “ecclesiæ sancti Petri Castellionis” by “Rogerus senior de Toenio et filius eius Radulphus senex, et Radulphus juvenis, filius Radulphi prædicti senis, et Rogerus filius Radulphi juvenis” by undated charter. His parentage is recorded by Orderic Vitalis.

b) HUGUES (-young, bur London Holy Trinity). His parentage is recorded by Orderic Vitalis.

c) SIMON .

d) ISABELLE de Tosny (-after [1158]). Isabel de Tosny widow of Walter FitzRichard donated property to Durnford, Wiltshire and to Salisbury Cathedral, confirmed by Henry II King of England by charter dated to before 1158. m WALTER FitzRichard, son of [RICHARD Lord of Clare and Tonbridge & his wife Rohese Giffard (-1138)].

e) several daughters . Their parentage is recorded by Orderic Vitalis, who does not name them.

f) [MARGARET (-1185 or before). Eyton highlights that Margaret, wife of Walter [I] de Clifford, "is said, with probability, to have brought him Clifford Castle in frank-marriage, she being a daughter of Ralph de Toni, Domesday Lord of that castle". Eyton implies, but does not actually state, that there is no primary source which confirms that this supposed parentage of Margaret is correct. He also says that "an equally probable account of the mode in which Clifford Castle left the sucession of the Toni is that Maud, wife of Richard fitz Ponce, was a daughter of Ralph de Toni". The chronology is not particularly favourable for Margaret to have been Raoul [IV] de Tosny´s daughter. Raoul´s children must have been born in the range [1104/15], given his marriage in 1103 and the narrow possible birth date range of his wife in [1073/76]. If Margaret was Raoul´s daughter, she would have been old when she died in or before 1185, and her husband even older when he died in 1190 assuming that he was about the same age as his wife. Let us compare this assessment with the approximate dates which can be assessed for the children of Walter [I] and his wife. Firstly, the couple´s grandson Walter [III] first appears in the records in 1208, presumably when he was a young adult, which would place his birth to [1180/90]. At that time, his father Walter [II] would have been over 40/50 years old if his maternal grandfather had been Raoul de Tosny. Secondly, Walter [I]´s great-granddaughter, granddaughter of his daughter Lucy, was probably born in [1190/96]: she was reported an infant on her first marriage in 1197, and her father died in [1196]. This would place Lucy´s birth in [1140/50], which would be on the late side if her maternal grandfather had been Raoul de Tosny (although not impossibly late). Thirdly, when these two cases are slotted together, it appears that Lucy was very likely older than her brother Walter [II]. If that is correct, the Tosny connection is even less likely, given her estimated birth date, if she was one of her parents´ older children. Another point to make is the absence of compatible onomastics for a Tosny marriage: none of Walter [I]´s children received typical Tosny names (Raoul/Ralph, Roger, Isabel, Adelisa, Godechilde). Walter [I]´s grandson was named Roger, but it is likely that he was named after his maternal grandfather (see UNTITLED ENGLISH NOBILITY). A last point of confusion is the reported marriage of Isabelle, another daughter of Raoul [IV] de Tosny, with another Walter FitzRichard (who is probably identified with the son of Richard Lord of Clare and Tonbridge, see above). If Margaret had also been Raoul´s daughter, this would lead to the improbable (although not impossible) coincidence that two of his daughters married two different individuals with the same name. In conclusion, the alleged Tosny connection of Walter [I] de Clifford remains something of a mystery but the proposed Tosny parentage of his wife Margaret does not appear to be the ideal explanation. m WALTER FitzRichard de Clifford, son of RICHARD FitzPons & his wife Matilda --- (-1190).]

g) GODECHILDE de Tosny (-after 1143). Guillaume de Jumièges names "la sœur de Roger du Ternois, fille de Raoul II, Godechilde" as wife of "Robert de Neubourg" younger brother of "Roger comte de Warwick". m ROBERT de Neubourg, son of HENRY de Beaumont Earl of Warwick & his wife Marguerite du Perche (-1159).

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Raoul III of Tosny

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 (aka Raoul III de Conches)

Raoul III of Tosny († c. 1126), seigneur de Conches-en-Ouche, was an Anglo-Norman nobleman of the house of Tosny.

Contents

   * 1 Life

* 2 Family and descendents
* 3 Notes
* 4 Bibliography
Life

In the war between the two surviving sons of William the Conqueror, Raoul III chose to support the younger brother, Henry I "Beauclerc", recently crowned king of England. On Raoul III's father's death in 1102, he crossed the Channel to take up his father's possessions in England, rallying to Henry and thus allowing himself to make a good marriage to Adelise, daughter and heiress of the Anglo-Saxon earl Waltheof of Northumbria.

From 1104, Raoul accompanied Henry in his campaign to conquer Normandy. After the battle of Tinchebray (1106), the campaign led to the imprisonment of duke Robert Curthose and his replacement by Henry, thus re-uniting England and Normandy under one master as it had been at the time of William. Raoul III's support for Henry was confirmed during the revolt of the barons of eastern Normandy against Henry in 1118-1119. Raoul did not rally to the rebels[1]. Throughout the revolt, if Orderic Vitalis is to be believed, he appears to have remained neutral or flexible in his allegiances. The leader of the revolt (Raoul's uncle Amaury III of Montfort) explained to king Louis VI of France that he had to attack Normandy from the south east since Raoul III was helping them. Amaury assured him that Raoul would join his vassals with Louis's troops and open four castles to him : Conches, Acquigny, Portes, Tosny[2]. In autumn 1119, Louis VI decided to intervene but the events that followed showed that Raoul III was not backing up Louis's force as Amaury had hoped and was not a sure supporter of the revolt. Raoul II de Gaël, one of Henry's supporters, suspected the Duke of Tosny of wanting to capture him. On Henry's advice, he conceded him Pont-Saint-Pierre and Val de Pîtres to keep him loyal[3]

In 1123-1124, Amaury de Montfort began another revolt against the king, during which Raoul III remained loyal.

Family and descendents

Father : Raoul II of Tosny

Wife : Adelise, daughter of Waltheof, earl of Northumbria and his wife Judith, niece of William the Conqueror

Children:

   * Roger III of Tosny

* Hugues
* Several daughters
Notes

  1. ^ Orderic Vitalis, History of Normandy, éd. Guizot, volume IV, book XII, 1826, p.297

2. ^ Orderic Vitalis, ibid, p.313
3. ^ Orderic Vital, ibid, p.319. Pont-Saint-Pierre and le Val-de-Pîtres formed part of the lands of Adelise de Conches, Raoul III's paternal aunt and the wife of William FitzOsbern. These domains included the "honneur" of Breteuil. In 1119, Raoul II de Gaël obtained this "honneur" from the king.
Bibliography

   * Orderic Vitalis, History of Normandy, éd. Guizot, volume IV, book XII and XIII, 1826

* Lucien Musset, "Aux origines d'une classe dirigeante : les Tosny, grands barons normands du Xe au XIIe siècle", Sonderdruck aus Francia Forschungen zur westeuropäischen Geschichte, Munich, 1978, p. 45-80

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Raoul III of Tosny

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 (Redirected from Raoul III de Conches)

Raoul III of Tosny († c. 1126), seigneur de Conches-en-Ouche, was an Anglo-Norman nobleman of the house of Tosny.

Life

In the war between the two surviving sons of William the Conqueror, Raoul III chose to support the younger brother, Henry I "Beauclerc", recently crowned king of England. On Raoul III's father's death in 1102, he crossed the Channel to take up his father's possessions in England, rallying to Henry and thus allowing himself to make a good marriage to Adelise, daughter and heiress of the Anglo-Saxon earl Waltheof of Northumbria.

From 1104, Raoul accompanied Henry in his campaign to conquer Normandy. After the battle of Tinchebray (1106), the campaign led to the imprisonment of duke Robert Curthose and his replacement by Henry, thus re-uniting England and Normandy under one master as it had been at the time of William. Raoul III's support for Henry was confirmed during the revolt of the barons of eastern Normandy against Henry in 1118-1119. Raoul did not rally to the rebels[1]. Throughout the revolt, if Orderic Vitalis is to be believed, he appears to have remained neutral or flexible in his allegiances. The leader of the revolt (Raoul's uncle Amaury III of Montfort) explained to king Louis VI of France that he had to attack Normandy from the south east since Raoul III was helping them. Amaury assured him that Raoul would join his vassals with Louis's troops and open four castles to him : Conches, Acquigny, Portes, Tosny[2]. In autumn 1119, Louis VI decided to intervene but the events that followed showed that Raoul III was not backing up Louis's force as Amaury had hoped and was not a sure supporter of the revolt. Raoul II de Gaël, one of Henry's supporters, suspected the Duke of Tosny of wanting to capture him. On Henry's advice, he conceded him Pont-Saint-Pierre and Val de Pîtres to keep him loyal[3]

In 1123-1124, Amaury de Montfort began another revolt against the king, during which Raoul III remained loyal.

[edit]Family and descendents

Father : Raoul II of Tosny

Wife : Adelise, daughter of Waltheof, earl of Northumbria and his wife Judith, niece of William the Conqueror

Children:

Roger III of Tosny

Hugues

Several daughters

[edit]Notes

^ Orderic Vitalis, History of Normandy, éd. Guizot, volume IV, book XII, 1826, p.297

^ Orderic Vitalis, ibid, p.313

^ Orderic Vital, ibid, p.319. Pont-Saint-Pierre and le Val-de-Pîtres formed part of the lands of Adelise de Conches, Raoul III's paternal aunt and the wife of William FitzOsbern. These domains included the "honneur" of Breteuil. In 1119, Raoul II de Gaël obtained this "honneur" from the king.

[edit]Bibliography

Orderic Vitalis, History of Normandy, éd. Guizot, volume IV, book XII and XIII, 1826

Lucien Musset, "Aux origines d'une classe dirigeante : les Tosny, grands barons normands du Xe au XIIe siècle", Sonderdruck aus Francia Forschungen zur westeuropäischen Geschichte, Munich, 1978, p. 45-80

Radulf II de Tosny1

b. circa 1078, d. circa 1126

Father Ralph de Tosny of Flamstead2 b. between 1025 and 1030, d. 24 March 1101/2

Mother Isabel de Montfort-l'Amaury, dame de Nogent2,3 b. circa 1055?

    Also called Ralph IV de Conches.4 Radulf II de Tosny was second son, but first surviving heir, of Ralph III.2 Also called Ralph de Tosny IV.4 He was born circa 1078 at Clifford Castle, Herefordshire, England. He was the son of Ralph de Tosny of Flamstead and Isabel de Montfort-l'Amaury, dame de Nogent.2,3 Radulf II de Tosny was in Normandy at the time of his father's death in 1102.1 He succeeded his father in 1102.5 He went to England following his father's death to take over his inheritance.1 He married Alice of Huntingdon, daughter of Waltheof Siwardsson, 1st Earl of Northumberland, Huntingdon and Northampton and Judith "the Countess" de Lens, in 1103.5,1 Radulf II de Tosny died circa 1126.6,1 Radulf II de Tosny was buried in Conches.6

Family

Alice of Huntingdon b. circa 1072?

Children

seigneur de Conches Roger III de Tosny+ b. c 1104, d. bt 1157 - 11626

Isabel de Tosny b. c 1105?1

Margaret de Tosny+ b. 1109, d. 1185

Citations

[S1278] K.S.B. Keats-Rohan, Domesday Descendants, pg. 740.

[S215] Revised by others later George Edward Cokayne CP, XII/1:Tony:760/1.

[S1278] K.S.B. Keats-Rohan, Domesday Descendants, pg. 596.

[S215] Revised by others later George Edward Cokayne CP, XII/1:Tony:760.

[S215] Revised by others later George Edward Cokayne CP, XII/1:Tony:761.

[S215] Revised by others later George Edward Cokayne CP, XII/1:Tony:762.

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Radulf was also called Ralph IV de Conches.

Radulf II de Tosny was in Normandy at the time of his father's death in 1102. He then went to England following his father's death to take over his inheritance.

He was buried in Conches.

See "My Lines"

( http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cousin/html/p362.htm#i6999 )

from Compiler: R. B. Stewart, Evans, GA

( http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cousin/html/index.htm )

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In the war between the two surviving sons of William the Conqueror, Ralph III chose to support the younger brother, Henry I Beauclerc, recently crowned king of England. On Ralph III's father's death in 1102, he crossed the Channel to take up his father's possessions in England, rallying to Henry and thus allowing himself to make a good marriage to Adelise, daughter and heiress of the Anglo-Saxon Earl Waltheof of Northumbria.

From 1104 Ralph accompanied Henry in his campaign to conquer Normandy. After the battle of Tinchebray (1106) the campaign led to the imprisonment of Duke Robert Curthose and his replacement by Henry thus re-uniting England and Normandy under one master as it had been at the time of William. Ralph III's support for Henry was confirmed during the revolt of the barons of eastern Normandy against Henry in 1118-1119. Ralph did not rally to the rebels. Throughout the revolt, if Orderic Vitalis is to be believed, he appears to have remained neutral or flexible in his allegiances. The leader of the revolt (Ralph's uncle Amaury III of Montfort) explained to king Louis VI of France that he had to attack Normandy from the south east since Ralph III was helping them. Amaury assured him that Ralph would join his vassals with Louis's troops and open four castles to him : Conches, Acquigny, Portes, Tosny. In autumn 1119 Louis VI decided to intervene but the events that followed showed that Ralph III was not backing up Louis's force as Amaury had hoped and was not a sure supporter of the revolt. Ralph II de Gaël, one of Henry's supporters, suspected the Duke of Tosny of wanting to capture him. On Henry's advice he conceded him Pont-Saint-Pierre and Val de Pîtres to keep him loyal.

In 1123-1124, Amaury de Montfort began another revolt against the king during which Ralph III remained loyal.

Wife: Adelise, daughter of Waltheof, Earl of Northumbria and his wife Judith, niece of William the Conqueror.

Children:

Roger III of Tosny Hugues Several daughters

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1. Suffix: Lord of Flamstead
2. Sex: M
3. Birth: Abt 1060-1081 in Clifford Castle, Clifford, Hereford, England
4. Death: 1126 in Flamstead, Herefordshire, England
5. Burial: Conches, Seine-et-Marne, France 1 1
6. Event: Title (Facts Pg) Unknown
7. Note: Lord of Flamstead
8. Change Date: 21 Sep 2005 at 15:23
9. Note:

   Lord of Flamstead, Hertfordshire. In 1103 he supported the claim ofRainald de Grancei to the Barony of Breteuil. He crossed to England toobtain his father's lands, and returned to Normandy in 1104 as an ardentsupporterof Henry. He took part in the battle of Tinchebrai on 28 Sep.1106. When rebellion broke out in Normandy against Henry in 1119, heremained faithful. In 1120he was with Henry at Rouen. (Marlyn Lewis and"Complete Peerage" by Cokayne; Carl Boyer at cboyer@sosinet.net)

Ralph, called either de Toeni or de Conches; married 1103 Alice, youngerdaughter of Waltheof, Earl of Northumberland, Northampton and Huntingdon,and died c1126. [Burke's Peerage]
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RALPH DE TOENI IV, styled also DE CONCHES, 2nd but 1st surviving sonandheir, assented with his mother and his elder brother, Roger, to hisfather's gifts to St. Evroul. He succeeded his fatherprobably in 1102;and in 1103 hewas one of the nobles who supported the claimof Rainald deGrancei to succeed to the Barony of Breteuil on the death of William deBreteuil. In the same yearhe was a member of the alliance formed byRobert, Count of Meulan, to force Goel d'Ivri to release his burgher,John of Meulan. He then crossed to England and, being graciously receivedby the King, obtained his father's lands; and in 1104 he returned toNormandy with Henry, as one of his ardent supporters. He wasin the King'sarmy in Normandy in 1106 and took part in the battle of Tinchebrai on 28September. In 1110 he was with the King at Romsey. When rebellion brokeout in Normandy in 1119, he remained faithful to Henry. About the sametime by the King's advice Ralph de Gael gave him Pont-St.-Pierre and thewhole valleyof Pistres. In 1120 he was with Henry at Rouen. He was abenefactor to the abbeys of Bec and Conches, and perhaps to the priory ofWestacre.
He married, in 1103, in England, Alice, younger daughter and coheir ofWaltheof, EARL OF NORTHUMBERLAND, NORTHAMPTON and HUNTINGDON, by Judith(the King's cousin), daughter of Lambert, COUNT OF LENS. AliceinheritedWalthamstow, Essex. Ralph died about 1126 and was buried atConches. His widowgave the church of Walthamstow to Holy Trinity, London,for the salvation of the souls of her son Hugh, who was buried there, andher husband. [Complete Peerage XII/1:760-2, (transcribed by DaveUtzinger)]

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Birth ABT. 1075 in Flamstead, England Death 1126 in Conches, France