Lord Alexander de Balliol, of Cavers

Sir Henry de Baliol of Cavers, Chamberlain of Scotland m. Lora de Valoniis (dau of William de Valoniis).

Their children:

(2) Sir Alexander de Baliol of Cavers (and Chilham), Chamberlain of Scotland (d before 06.1311)

Not to be confused with Sir Alexander de Baliol, of Barnard Castle and yes People that want to argue that William Baliol le Scot is not Brother to John Baliol ll or son of John Baliol and Deverguilla should not be confusing them on purpose for the sake of an argument as it is possible that Both Alexanders where Twins being both born circa 1242 see bottom of Page 20 little hand pointing down top of 21 and 22 shows both Alexanders with little hand pointing up indicating to go to previous page for Parents https://archive.org/stream/memorialsoffamil00scot#page/20/mode/2up
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family

From Stirnet's "Baliol1" page: "TCP (Balliol of Cavers) points out that the common notion that this Alexander was a younger brother of John de Baliol, king of Scots is erroneous."

Surname also shown as "de Baliol".

CP (Balliol of Cavers) points out that the common notion that this Alexander was a younger brother of King John Baliol is erroneous.

m. (c1270) Isabel de Chilham (b after 1245, d by 01.05.1292, dau of Richard de Dover of Chilham)

• (A) Sir Thomas de Baliol of Cavers possibly father or grandfather of ... (i) Sir Thomas de Baliol of Cave (ii) Isabel de Baliol m. Ranald More
• (B) Sir Henry Baliol, 1st of Hoprig
• (C) William Baillie, 2nd of Hoprig

[Did he have a son and heir Alexander who was father of Sir Thomas? CP seems to think so .... ] knighted

styled "of Cavers"

Chamberlain of Scotland

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_de_Baliol

According to the Dictionary of National Biography: He was certainly not Alexander, son of Hugh Baliol of Barnard Castle, an elder brother of John Baliol the king, for this Alexander died in 1279 without issue, leaving a widow, Eleonora de Genovra (Rymer, Thomas, Fœdera i.10, 779). It is probable, but not certain, that he was the same person as Alexander de Baliol, the son of Henry de Baliol, chamberlain of Scotland, who died in 1246, and Lora or Lauretta de Valoines, the coheiress along with her sister Christina, wife of Peter de Maule of Panmure, of the fiefs of the Valoines family in England. If so he can be traced in the records of Hertfordshire between 6th and 32nd Edward I in connection with the manor of Benington in that county, which he inherited through his mother (see Robert Clutterbuck, Hertfordshire, vol. ii.). This identification would account for his appointment to the office of chamberlain of Scotland, which had been held by his father, his great-grandfather, William de Berkeley, Lord of Reidcastle, and one of his maternal ancestors, Peter de Valoines. But there are two difficulties attending it. Alexander de Baliol the chamberlain is never mentioned as possessing Reidcastle in Forfarshire, the estate of Henry de Baliol, and it is difficult to account for his constant association with the estate of Cavers in Teviotdale, and not with any English fiefs. Possibly the latter circumstance is due to the references being in the Scottish records. It appears that in 32 Edward I (1304) Bennington was sold by Alexander de Baliol to John de Binsted, and the conjecture seems admissible that Baliol may have made Scotland the chief place of his residence, though retaining English fiefs in right of his mother and his wife. His preference for Scotland would be confirmed by his succession to the high office which his father Henry had held.

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The family of Baliol eventually merged in that of Scot, through William Baliol le Scot, youngest, and last surviving brother of John Baliol, King of Scotland, and of Alexander Baliol, Lord of the manor of Chilham Castle, Kent ; and also the uncle of Edward Baliol, who for seven years was king of that distracted country.

Alexander, summoned as Baron Baliol to English Parliament from 26th Sept., 1300, to 1306, after the renunciation of the crown by his brother John.

Was imprisoned with his brother in the Tower of London, A.D. 1296. Was Lord of Chilham, Kent.

Married Isabel de Chilham, de Dover, or De Warrenne, da. of Richard de Fitzroy or De Chilham, natural son of King John of England. She was relict of David, Earl of Athol, and resided at Chilham Castle, Kent, where she died in 1292, and was buried in Canterbury Cathedral, where her tomb exists.

"Sir Alexander Baliol (brother to the king [SIC: cousin], and [brother] to William Baliol le Scot), together with Sir Michael Scot, Sir David Scot, and others of eminent degree, were despatched a.d. 1290 by Edward I., to bring from Norway, Margaret, daughter of Eric, King of Norway, and Margaret, his wife, daughter of Alexander, King of Scotland, sage from Norway, a.d. 1290 ; or, as some assert, shortly after her arrival in Scotland. The crown then descended to the heirs of Margaret, sister of John le Scot, Earl of Huntingdon and last Earl of Chester, of the Norman and Saxon line."

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From http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=mlysell&i...

From "Elecric Scotland": "BAILLIE, a surname supposed to have been originally the same as Baliol. In the account of the Baillies of Lamington inserted in the appendix to Nisbet's Heraldry, it is stated that Mr. Alexander Baillie of Castlecarry, a learned antiquarian, was of opinion that the family of Lamington were a branch of the illustrious house of the Baliols, who were lords of Galloway, and kings of Scotland. An uncle of King John Baliol, named Sir Alexander Baliol of Cavers, was great chamberlain of Scotland in the reign of his nephew, in 1292. By Isabel, his wife, the daughter and heiress of Richard de Chillam, the widow of David de Strathbogie, earl of Athol, he had two sons, Alexander and William Baliol. Alexander the eldest, after the abdication of his cousin, King John, joined the Scottish party, for which he was, by order of King Edward, imprisoned in the tower of London, but upon security given by his father and two gentlemen of the house of Lindsay, he was enlarged. (Rymer.) His other son, William, had the lands of Penston and Carnbroe, in the barony of Bothwell, Lanarkshire, the oldest of the possessions of the Baillies of Lamington. After the abdication of his cousin, he also joined the Scottish party, which rendered him so obnoxious to King Edward, that by act of the parliament of England, he was, in 1297, fined in four years' rent of his estate. From Robert the Bruce he got a charter of the lands of Penston. He gave in pure alms to the monks of Newbattle licentiam formandi stagnum in terra de Carnbrue. The lands of Carnbroc continued in the same family till they were given over to a younger son, the ancestor of the Baliols or Baillies of the house of Carphin."

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From Lives of the Baillies. (Draft.) by Baillie, James William Published 1872 page 8-9

Alexander Baliol or De Balliolo, as has been before remarked, is stated by Mr. Ramsay to have been a brother to John Baliol, who founded Baliol College, Oxford ; and Nisbet mentions an uncle of King John Baliol, Sir Alexander Baliol of Cavers, who was Great Chamberlain of Scotland in 1292. Sir Alexander married Isabel, daughter of Richard de Chillam, and widow of David de Strathbolgy, Earl of Athol, by whom he is said to have had two sons, Alexander and William de Baliol.
And here commences that contradiction I have found in writing the history of the Baillies, as every author whom I have consulted gives a different account from the former one ; but I have followed the account by an anonymous

author, who professes to have seen the Titles of the Lamington Estates, and I have since compared his account with an Inventory furnished by the present Proprietor of Lamington, and have in most cases found them correspond.

Nisbet in his Appendix, voce Baillie of Lamington, on the authority of Baillie of Castlecary, which, as I have before remarked, is not always to be trusted, says that Sir Alexander Baliol had a son,

ALEXANDER DE BALIOL,

who was not so submissive to the English, after the abdication of his cousin King John, as might have been expected ; but it is not stated that this Alexander de Baliol was proprietor of Hoprig and Penston, and in the first volume, voce " Stars," page 247, he mentions,

I. SIR JOHN BALIOL, as proprietor of Hoprig in East Lothian in the year 1292.

The only way of reconciling matters that I know, is to say that Sir Alexander had three sons, named

Alexander,

John, and

"William. «

From https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famille_de_Bailleul

Alexandre († v. 1310), fils d'Henri, hérite de son frère Gui, la baronnie de Cavers, mais ne peut obtenir son héritage anglais avant 1266, car il soutient les barons rebelles4. Par mariage, il acquiert la baronnie de Chilham dans le Kent, et devient un important propriétaire terrien en Angleterre4. Comme son père, il est chambellan d'Écosse, et a une certaine importance dans la politique écossaise, étant parmi les douze gardiens désigné pour reprendre le gouvernement des mains de son cousin le roi Jean4. Par la suite, il combat aux côtés des Anglais pour le contrôle du royaume écossais4. Plus tard, il vend ses possessions en Angleterre et combat le roi Robert de Brus entre 1307 et 13094. Son fils Thomas lui succède en 1310. Il aurait vendu ses possessions de Carvers à William Douglas, 1er comte de Douglas5.

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see page 54 here https://ia801409.us.archive.org/3/items/agenealogicalac00robegoog/a...

• https://archive.org/stream/memorialsoffamil00scot#page/22/mode/2up
• https://archive.org/stream/memorialsoffamil00scot#page/89/mode/1up
• Reference: MyHeritage Family Trees - SmartCopy: Mar 4 2017, 5:31:41 UTC

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• Residence: Hoprig
  • Reference: MyHeritage Family Trees - SmartCopy: Mar 4 2017, 8:22:43 UTC