Elizabeth Say

• Elizabeth Fray1,2
• F, b. circa 1441, d. after 1490
• Father Sir John Fray, Chief Baron of the Exchequer2 b. c 1415, d. 1 Jul 1461
• Mother Agnes Danvers2 b. c 1408
• Elizabeth Fray was born circa 1441 at of Banbury, Hertfordshire, England; Age 20 in 1461.2 She married Sir Thomas Waldgrave, son of Sir Richard Waldgrave and Joan de Durward, circa 1457; They had 3 sons (William, Edward, & Richard) and 4 daughters (Anne, Jane, Katherine, & Elizabeth).2 Elizabeth Fray married Sir William Say, Sheriff of Somerset & Dorset, son of Sir John Saye, Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, Speaker of the House of Commons. and Elizabeth Cheney, before 1480; They had 2 daughters (Elizabeth & Mary).2 Elizabeth Fray died after 1490; Buried at Broxbourne, Hertfordshire.2
• Family 1 Sir Thomas Waldgrave b. c 1437, d. 28 Apr 1472
• Children
  • Richard Waldegrave b. 1458
  • Joan Waldegrave b. c 1459, d. 1491
  • Edward Waldegrave+ b. c 1461, d. 1501
  • Catherine Waldegrave+ b. c 1463
  • Sir William Waldegrave, Sheriff of Norfolk & Suffolk+2 b. c 1465, d. 30 Jun 1527
  • Jane Waldegrave b. c 1465
  • Anne Waldegrave b. c 1467
• Family 2 Sir William Say, Sheriff of Somerset & Dorset b. c 1452, d. 4 Dec 1529
• Children
  • Elizabeth Say+3 b. c 1481, d. b 21 Jul 1506
  • Mary Say4 b. c 1483, d. a 5 Jun 1535
• Citations
• 1.[S3578] Unknown author, Lineage and Ancestry of HRH Prince Charles by Paget, Vol. II, p. 426; Wallop Family, Vol. 4, line 1018.
• 2.[S5] Douglas Richardson, Plantagenet Ancestry, p. 740-741.
• 3.[S5] Douglas Richardson, Plantagenet Ancestry, p. 741.
• 4.[S11568] The Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain, and the United Kingdom, by George Edward Cokayne, Vol. V, p. 138-139.
• From: http://our-royal-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com/p426.htm#i...
• ________________
• 1. WILLIAM Bourchier (-killed in battle Barnet 14 Apr 1471[703]). A manuscript pedigree dated to [1500] names "Elizabeth Countess of Essex" as daughter of "Anne Countess of Cambridge" and mother of "William Lord Bouchier"[704]. He was styled Viscount Bourchier. [705]Maybe m firstly ISABEL de Vere, daughter of JOHN de Vere Earl of Oxford & his wife Elizabeth Howard . m [secondly] (before 15 Aug 1467) as her first husband, ANNE Wydeville, daughter of RICHARD Wydeville Earl Rivers & his wife Jacquette de Luxembourg ([1438]-30 Jul 1489). A manuscript pedigree dated to [1500] names "Anne Lady Bouchier" as daughter of "Richard Earl Rivers" and mother of "Henry Earl of Essex" and of "Lady Ferrers of Chartley"[706]. She married secondly Sir Edward Wingfield, and thirdly (before 26 Jun 1480) as his first wife, George Grey Earl of Kent. William & his wife had three children:
  • c) HENRY ([posthumously][708] [1471/72]-Baas Manor, Broxbourne 13 Mar 1540, bur Little Easton, Essex). A manuscript pedigree dated to [1500] names "Anne Lady Bouchier" as daughter of "Richard Earl Rivers" and mother of "Henry Earl of Essex" and of "Lady Ferrers of Chartley"[709]. He succeeded his paternal grandfather in 1483 as Earl of Essex. He died having broken his neck by a fall from a German horse[710]. m ([1498]) MARY Say, daughter and co-heiress of Sir WILLIAM Say of Broxbourne and Essenden, Hertfordshire & his second wife Elizabeth Fray (-after 5 Jun 1535). Henry & his wife had one child: ....
• From: http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH%20NOBILITY%20MEDIEVAL1.htm#... ______________________
• The Antiquary, Volume 32 edited by Edward Walford, John Charles Cox, George Latimer Apperson
• https://archive.org/details/antiquary32slsniala
• https://archive.org/stream/antiquary32slsniala#page/223/mode/1up
• Pg. 223
  • HILL. CHART
• CHILDREN of Margaret Rodney & John Hill
  • Genovefa, b. Aug., 1455; d. c. 1480; mar. Sir Wm. Say (d. Dec. 4, 1529), of Sawbridgeworth, but had only one child, which died with its mother. Sir Wm. mar. (2) Elizabeth, widow of Sir T. Walgrave. _____________________

Elizabeth Say[1,2]

1477 - 1506

Birth 1477 Broxbourne, Hertfordshire

Sex Female

Lived In England

Complete *

Died Jul 1506 Barton Bloung, Derbyshire

Person ID I00076228 Leo

Last Modified 18 Sep 1999

Father Sir William Say, b. 1450, Broxbourne, Hertfordshire

Mother Elizabeth Fray, b. 1441, Cottered, Hertfordshire

Family ID F00105631 Group Sheet

Family William Blount, 4th Lord Mountjoy, b. Abt 1478

Married 1497

Children

1. Gertrude Blount, b. Abt 1504

Last Modified 18 Sep 1999

Family ID F00032952 Group Sheet

Sources 1. [S00301] ~Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag, Marburg, Schwennicke, Detlev (Ed.), Reference: III 630

2. [S02568] Descendants of Elizabeth Cheyne, 2008 , Bradley, Hal

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Biography

From http://www.thepeerage.com/p20878.htm#i208772

Elizabeth Fray was born in 1441.2 She was the daughter of Sir John Fray and Agnes Danvers.3,1

She married, firstly, Sir Thomas Waldegrave, son of Sir William Waldegrave and Joan de Durwood.4

She married, secondly, Sir William Say, son of Sir John Say and Elizabeth Cheney, in 1480.5

Her married name became Waldegrave.4 From 1480, her married name became Say.4

Children of Elizabeth Fray and Sir Thomas Waldegrave

1. Edward Waldegrave+3 d. 1514
2. William Waldegrave2
3. Richard Waldegrave
4. Catherine Waldegrave+5 b. c 1463

Children of Elizabeth Fray and Sir William Say

1. Elizabeth Say+5
2. Mary Say5 b. 1474, d. 1535

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From https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Fray-1

Elizabeth Fray was born circa 1441 at of Banbury, Hertfordshire, England.[1][2][3]

Marriage & Children

She married Sir Thomas Waldgrave, son of Sir Richard Waldgrave and Joan Doreward, circa 1457. They had 3 sons and 4 daughters.[1][4][2]

1. Sir William
2. Edward
3. Richard
4. Anne, wife of Mr. Fabion
5. Jane, wife of Sir Edmund Arundell, & of Thomas Mannock
6. Katherine, wife of George Mannocke
7. Elizabeth, a nun

Elizabeth Fray married, secondly, Sir William Say, Sheriff of Somerset, Dorset, Essex, & Hertfordshire, Burgess of Plympton, Justice of the Peace for Hertfordshrie, son of Sir John Say, circa 18 April 1480. They had 2 daughters.[1][2][3]

1. Elizabeth, wife of Sir William Blount, 4th Lord Mountjoy
2. Mary, wife of Sir Henry Bourchier, Earl of Essex).

Death

Elizabeth Fray died after 13 January 1495; Buried at Broxbourne, Hertfordshire.[1][2][3]

http://www.oxford-shakespeare.com/Probate/PROB_11-30-620.pdf

The testator [Edward Waldegrave] was the second son of Sir Thomas Waldegrave (d. 28 April 1472) of Smallbridge and Elizabeth Fray (b.1441), daughter and co-heiress of Sir John Fray (d.1461), Chief Baron of the Exchequer, by Agnes Danvers (d.1478), daughter of Sir John Danvers. See Richardson, Douglas, Plantagenet Ancestry, 2nd ed., 2011, Vol. III, p. 418 at: https://books.google.ca/books?id=kjme027UeagC&pg=RA2-PA418

For earlier generations of the Waldegrave family, see the will, TNA PROB 11/22/294,dated 26 January 1525 and 6 July 1525 and proved 6 March 1528, of the testator’s elder brother, Sir William Waldegrave (c.1465 - 30 June 1527), one of the executors of John de Vere (1442-1513), 13th Earl of Oxford. For the will of the 13th Earl, see TNA PROB 11/17/379. After the death of the testator’s father, the testator’s mother, Elizabeth Fray (b.1441), married secondly Sir William Say (c.1452 – 4 December 1529). For his will, dated 8 November 1529 and proved 25 August 1531, see TNA PROB 11/24/102, and the original spelling transcript at: http://fmg.ac/resources/scanned-sources/file/130-s-1614?start=20

References

1. http://www.oxford-shakespeare.com/Probate/PROB_11-30-620.pdf
2. Will of Sir William Say, 1529 https://fmg.ac/resources/scanned-sources/file/130-s-1614?start=20
3. WikiTree contributors, "Elizabeth (Fray) Say (abt.1441-aft.1495)," WikiTree: The Free Family Tree, (https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Fray-1 : accessed 26 January 2024). Cites
   1. Douglas Richardson, Plantagenet Ancestry, p. 740-741.
   2. Douglas Richardson, Plantagenet Ancestry: 2nd Edition, Vol. III, p. 418-419. https://books.google.ca/books?id=kjme027UeagC&pg=RA2-PA418
   3. Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families.
   4. Douglas Richardson, Magna Carta Ancestry, 2nd Edition, Vol. IV, p. 283.
4. http://www.thepeerage.com/p20878.htm#i208772 cites
   1. [S1916] Tim Boyle, "re: Boyle Family," e-mail message to Darryl Roger Lundy, 16 September 2006. Hereinafter cited as "re: Boyle Family."
   2. [S6239] Find a Grave, online http://www.findagrave.com. Hereinafter cited as Find a Grave.
   3. [S37] BP2003 volume 3, page 4033. See link for full details for this source. Hereinafter cited as. [S37]
   4. [S170] James Alexander Manning, The Lives of the Speakers of the House of Commons (London, U.K.: E. Churton, 1850), page 10-12. Hereinafter cited as Lives of the Speakers of the House of Commons.
   5. [S18] Matthew H.C.G., editor, Dictionary of National Biography on CD-ROM (Oxford, U.K.: Oxford University Press, 1995). Hereinafter cited as Dictionary of National Biography.
   6. [S5792] Robin Dening, "re: Rochfort Family," e-mail message to Darryl Roger LUNDY (101053), 2 January 2012. Hereinafter cited as "re: Rochfort Family."
5. https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00076301&tree=LEO cites
   1. [S00119] Paget, Gerald, The Lineage and Ancestry of H.R.H. Prince Charles, Prince of Wales, Edinburgh, 1977. Q 114366
   2. [S01534] Watney, Vernon James, The Wallop Family and Their Ancestry 1928 .252