ATTENTION Curators, please assist

Hatte Rubenstein Blejer - Thanks for taking a look. I got the same suggestion from you and Fred Bergman. Perhaps Tobias will be able to read it. Faustine

Private User Someone has already reported it, probably as a claimed historical profile.

Robert M,

It is extremely annoying not to be able to see the relationships on a profile not managed by you, and I've been banging on about this for ages. There is a way to do this: you just create a duplicate profile, merge it with the one already on Geni, and then you have become a manager and the relationships field appears. In general I regard this as a misuse of my time if the only purpose is to put in a marriage date which may already be on the profile for all I know. If there is a false parentage for one of the partners, then I do it.

Mark

Faustine Gail Humphris - I took a brief look yesterday at the note and got something about being "owed 50 Thaler."

For German translations, I suggest posting a link to the file in the forum at [http://dict.leo.org/forum/previewUnsolvedquery.php?idForum=1&lp... dict.leo.org]. Leo is where I spend the rest of my online time after Geni. (I'm a German professor, but unfortunately, I don't read Sütterlinschrift very well.) You'll have to make an account at Leo.

Nick, you are my 10th cousin and look to be similarly multicultural like me :)

Woodman Mark Lowes Dickinson, OBE you do realise you can ask to be made a manager don't you? Actions - management options - request management.

Private User Faustine Darsey I would suspect that because that note ocured around his time of death that because nick mentioed something about 50 thaler that it was a discharge of debts notice.. though i am not sure what 50 thaler means.. correct my if i am wrong but I thought germany allways had the dm until recently?

Things like this are useful to read.

About a ''thaler'' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaler

zombie?

Lea Levie

Private User seems to have been dead since forever. 3 Geni members in close family, profile administrator is active.

hm, born c.1730 and still private?
i'm having hard time understanding gen's privacy policy

thanks Harald

The closest relative is third great grandson, this is within 5 steps - I do think it's a long way to reach back into the tree, but that's the current policy.... 3rd cousin and closer, I think.

Faustine Gail Humphris, I've made a little more progress on it. What follows is what I have figured out so far with transcription first and then translation.

First line:

{first word not sure - perhaps a city or town?} Den 16ten (Sechszehnten) März 1857 translates as ----- the Sixteenth (16th) of March 1857

Second line:

{first word -or two- not sure} Schriebener? Peter Kiltz {not sure}: N: N: {not sure what those are for} translates as ------- Writer? Peter Kiltz ----: N: N:

Third line:

Bin Schuldig an Heinrich? ---schmidt? fünfzig translates as Am indebted to Heinrich? ----schmidt? (Henry ----smith?) fifty (50)

Fourth line:

Thaler ------ -- mir Peter Kiltz gelesent? fort

Thaler ------ -- me Peter Kiltz -not sure about the last 2-

Fifth line:

mit ------- zu ----- --------- ---- Dag(Tag?)

with ------- to ----- -------- --- Day

Sixth line:

und Datum translates as and Date.

[Signed]

Peter Kiltz
Nancy Kiltz

Michael Thomas Brown, It sounds like an IOU. Thanks for your time & effort. Faustine

Faustine, no problem and no IOU. I am sure that if I needed help on something and you could do you would. I am sure that most people here would. We (most of us anyway :) ) help each other when we can.

Faustine Gail Humphris !!! Success? I have an answer from the posting in German Genealogy on FB.

Here's what I was given:

Bonn???? the 16th march 1857 - I, below signing Peter Kiltz of ..... am owing Heinrich Waldtschmidt fifty Taler which he borrowed me, Peter Kiltz, for 6 percent interests from day and date. Peter Kiltz Nancy(??) Kiltz

Bonn would make sense. It is a place as I suspected that first word would be. It's just that the B is stylized differently than the first letter of the word Bin to start a line a couple lines down. I could not decipher the part about "below signing" although that wording or similar makes sense for an apparent promisory note/IOU (this is an IOU :) ). I think loaned me would be a better translation than borrowed me. They wrote the percentage out (6%) the number 6 in German is sechs. The S is in a different style than what I have seen with Kurrentschrift or Sütterlinschrift. Perhaps it is because this document seems to predate those scripts. The S in Sechs does match the S in the Schriebener and Schuldig. With those words I was seeing the Sch together in a manner similar to the ligatures for those letter combinations in the later scripts. The Schriebener does translate as Signer (my earlier translation of Writer is contextually similar.) Heinrich was correct! Yay.

Anyway, the upshot is that this was an IOU dated March 16, 1857 and apparently the date the loan was made to him.

And this was much faster than me trying to do it myself. :)

Faustine, after looking at Peter Kiltz's profile, I am not sure if the location is Bonn. According to his timeline, he was here in America when he and Nancy signed the IOU. Is there a Bonn, in Perry County, Indiana or at least a location with a similar enough name?

Michael Thomas Brown, Wow! That's great. I even did a search in ancestry.com for a Henry Smith born about 1840 In Perry County, IN. The family tree that came up was for Meade County, KY, which is right across the Ohio River from that location.

The word "Bonn" doesn't mean anything to me, but I will remember it. Maybe it will later.

Thanks so much for your help!

Faustine, -smith was only the last part of the lender's last name. I could not make out the first part. The guy in the German Genealogy FB group who did the COMPLETE(?) [at least more than I got] translation had his full last name as Waldtschmidt (Ger. sp.). Bonn was the capital of West Germany after WWII until re-unification at which time Berlin became once again the Capital.

It would make sense to have both a date and location on an IOU or Promissory Note.

Michael Thomas Brown

Thanks for your part in helping solve this mystery. It is interesting to see how they did things back then. Tell the facebook group a "Thank You"
Faustine

You're welcome and I will pass on your appreciation to them as well.

Michael Brown

the transcription in this discussion is really good!
I could not read all the words of the notice, but already the most. For missing words or characters I'll set a "-"

Transcription:

"Bonn Den 16ten März 1857
Ich ---der unter Schriebener Peter Kiltz ---: N: N:
Bin Schuldig an Heinrich Waldtschmidt fünftig
Thaler M-lq-- er mir Peter Kiltz gelehnet hat
mit intresum zu Sechs Brohzent --- Tag --
und Datum
Peter Kiltz
Nancy Kiltz"

Remarks:

1. The text is not written in a modern German language.

2. N:N: (by my signature ?)

2. "intresum" is not a German word = the english word "interest" (the German word is "Zinsen"

3. Brohzent is a misspelling, the correct German word is Prozent.

Translation into a modern German language:

"Bonn, den 16. März 1857
Ich, Peter Kiltz, bestätige: N:N:
dass ich Heinrich Waldtschmidt fünfzig Thaler schulde, die er mir geliehen hat, mit Zinsen zu Sechs Prozent pro Jahr.
Peter Kiltz
Nancy Kiltz"

Translation into English:

"Bonn, March 16, 1857
I, Peter Kiltz, certify: N: N:
that I owe Henry Waldtschmidt fifty Thaler, which he lent me, with interest at six percent per year.
Peter Kiltz
Nancy Kiltz "

Tobias, I am sure Faustine will appreciate it. Since the earlier posts, someone else in the German Genealogy FB group suggested Rome, not Bonn and yet another person there posted a link to wikipedia article about Rome, Perry County, IN, USA. This Rome is right in the area where Peter & Nancy Kiltz were living at that time. I was about to let Faustine know when I saw your post, which does fill in most all of the other little gaps I think.

Also, Datum is not German is it? Latin I think. That may be the case for intresum as well. Has a Latin ending.

Michael Thomas Brown and Tobias Rachor (C). Peter Kiltz was from Prussia & his wife Nancy Connor was Irish. Any guess about their beliefs, Catholic or Protestant? I wonder if they could talk to each other. Maybe not & would cut down on arguments. I have the Probate records. They did have a Bible & other books in their home.

I had switched tabs to my FB page. I guess I don't have to msg u Faustine. (Presumably you have seen the most recent posts here.)

Also, thank you for those profile updates on Daniel Cheney, Caleb Chase, and both Ebenezer Chases in my line.