ATTENTION Curators, please assist

Thank you all for your help... I am sorry I am pressing here, and always in a bit of a hurry, trying to get things done with limited time using ISP which has a limitation on time and amount of gigs. I really believe that Ben Tallman b. Portsmouth RI Jan 28, 1684 who died in Warwick, RI 5-20-1759, had 5 children by first marriage to Patience Durfee m. sep 23, 1708, and 2 by second wife, Deb Cook d. 1759. Here is his will and I am doing some quoting...

proved Aug 13, 1759 names wife Deb as executor. He left to son BENJAMIN land in Porsmouth with buildings; to dau Mary Fish 5 pounds, to dau Deliverance Sison 50 pounds, to daugh Patience Tallman 45 pounds and a new chest; to sons William andf James 20 shillings each to dau Sarah Godfrey, a feather bed; to grandaughters, Bethaniah and Freelove Tallman, each a half of the bountuy money that was their father s [John Tallman] on account of the expedition against Cape Breton; to wife the homestead in Warwick, 2 acres, for life, and then equally to grandsons William and Sameel, sons of James, with provision should they die; to wife also, the whole of movable estate. There is no mention of Mercy or Ruth.

There are 2 baby tucons in my back yard... Quite a thrill!

Re. Peter b. 1623. Ann Tallman has no BD or DD. but is listed as being married to Stephen Brayton (Mar. 8, 1678) of Portsmouth and then William Potter, no dates.

Now according to my handwritten account from my great grandmother John is definately listed as father of William b. 1761 married to Hannah b. 4-212-1769. It is not in writing, in this hand written note, by my grandfarther told me over and over that she was a chase.

Erica, Here is a quote, from the source that I mentioned yesterday (Emery) and yesterday's phone call comfirms that this document exists, from the Tallman descendants (Emery)
"It has long been a Tallman tradition that the family was of German origin. The first American ancestor was Peter Tallman, found in Portsmouth RI in the middle of the 17th cent, but it was not established until 1914 that he came from Hamburg, Ger. The discoverer of this fact, George Andrews Morirarty, of the committee on English and foreign research of the NEHGS, brought to light a deposition, transcribed on the town records of Portsmouth, and made by Joseph Sheffield on March 17, 1702, concerning a declaration made to him by Peter Tallman of Portsmouth on Mar 13 of that year. Peter Tallman's statement was that in 1647 he came from Hambrough (Hamburg) to the island of barbadoes, and that subsequently he removed therefrom to RI." (I have that statement here and I have used some abrieviations on some of the above)
The Moriarty Report says that...

_______ Talemann, apparently of the Duchy of Schleswig-Holstein, was born about 1558. He had, beyond doubt, four children, Peter (could this be the peter of 1607?) Susanna, Henry, and Anna.

Henry Tallman, of Hamburg, son of the foregoing, born prprobably in Schleswig-Holstein, about 1586, was living in the Parish of St. Nicholas, Hajmburg, as late as March 24, 1619, and probably lived for several years after that date. He probably married Anna____, who may have been Anna Talemanns,who was a godmother at the baptism of C. Anna dau of Peter Tallman, on May 13, 1608, (Peter (1607?) The son of ____ Talemann?) [ Henry ] He was residing in the Parish of St. Nicholas on Sept. 20, 1616, when his daughter Anna Maria was baptized there. He evidently became a burgher of Hamburg, if the Peter Tamemann who was admited a burgher in 1646 was his son
children:

A. Anna Maria Tallman, bapt. in the church of St. Nicholas, Hamburg, Sept, 20, 1616

B. Elizabeth Tallman, bapt. in the church of St. Nicholas, Hamburg, March 24, 1619

C. Peter Tallman, b. about 1623, and made free in Hamburg Aug. 1646, being admitted as son of a burgher; (Henry Tallman) the emigrant to Barbadoes and New England."

Note: that there is no mention of Maria Von Peene as a wife of Henry but there is the possibility that she is the daughter of Henry and that she married a Von Peene, note that Henry had a daughter named Anna Maria, b. 1616 in Hamburg. So merging her as a wife of Peter is a mistake, in my opinion. The name Anna may have been given to her from her mother Anna, who was married to Henry.

So, in conclusion, it would seem feasible to remove Anna Maria Von P. as the wife of Henry, and then we need to look further to find that daughter's husband (dau Anna Maria Tallman), who probably married a Von Peene.

I see that the date of her birth is 1601... Do we know where that came from? I have Anna (dau of Henry) Maria Tallman's date as 1616.

I have to go out, I am using a lot of gigs here, once they are used I have to wait until the 1st of Feb to get back on. I will try to come back later. Will wait for responses while off line instead of being on line.

Sally Thomas, Ben who ?
Peter Tallman (1589-1622)
Birth 20 Feb 1623 inHamburg, Germany
Death 1 April 1708 inPortsmouth, Newport, Rhode Island, United States
Spouse 1: Ann Hill (1628-1687) m. 1/02/1649 Portsmouth, RI
2: Joan Briggs (1635-1695) m. 7/24/1665 Portsmouth, RI
Benjamin Tallman 1683 – 1759
3: Esther Mars (1640-1708) m. x/xx/1686 Portsmouth, RI

Benjamin Tallman (1683-1759)
Birth 28 Jan 1683 in Portsmouth, Newport, Rhode Island, United States
Death 20 May 1759 in Warwick, Kent, Rhode Island, United States
Spouse 1: Deborah Cook (1692-1771) m. 9/23/1708 Portsmouth, RI
John Tallman (1735-1807)

John Tallman (1735-1807)
Birth ABT 1735 in Tiverton, Newport, RI
Death ABT 1807 in Newport, Newport Co., Rhode Island
Spouse 1: Mary Thomas (1732-1786) m. 3/02/1758 Portsmouth, RI
William Tallman (1761 – 1820)

William Tallman(1761-1820)
Birth 1761 in Portsmouth, Newport, Rhode Island, United States
Death 1820 ( ???? )
Spouse1: Hannah Chase (1769-1853)
Jamima Tallman (1788-????)
Haqnnah Tallman (1789-????)
James Tallman (1790-????)
Ama Tallman (1792-????)
James Tallman (1794-????)
Mary Tallman (1796 –????)
Asa B Tallman (1798 – 1879)
Borden C Tallman (1800-????)
Elisa Tallman (1803-????)
Harriet Tallman (1805-????)
Abby Tallman (1806- ????)
Matilda B Tallman (1809-????)
William Tallman (1810-????)
ttfn.....

re: Benjamin Tallman: Ok, I have only 2 children from marriage of Peter Tallman 1623 to Esther
1. Samuel Tallman b. 1688 alive 1709 and
2. Joseph Tallman b. c. 1691; d. 4-13-1756; m. Joanna Mayhew 1713 moved to New London CT.
William
I have Benjamin Tallman b. 1684 as son of Peter Tallman and Joanna Briggs, not Esther. John Tallman was his son, and John's son was William 1761 from who I descend.

Also, I looked up the Media Research Bureau... and found that many others are also looking for this outfit. I called the DAR to see if it might be connected with them and talked with the Librarian there. He says that the publication of this outfit is dubious, so i guess we can take it with a grain of salt. Apparently people in the 30s and 40s had letters mailed tpo them using the recipients last name as a middle name for the sender telling them for a fee, they could provide them with their genealogies. So, it probably was a scam of some sort. The librarian referred me to the Nat Geological Soc. to an article about these scams in their quarterly, written by Gustave Anjou. I tried to find that, but was unsucessful since I do not know when it was written, and neglected to ask.

What I would like to know is what is the legitimacy of the other study done re: Peter Tallman 1623? Where did it come from? Who did it? when? and more... etc.... I tried to find the person responsible for it, and come up with a dead end. I would like to know about her, and her sources. Were they direct?

Ok, I found that the author of the second report on Peter Tallman b. 1623 is a man named Carl Boyer who published in 1981 "Ancestral Lines Revisited" I searched at NHGS for the publication and Mr. Boyer, and could not find it, I also searched the Nat. Genealoghical Soc and did not find him or his publication. Does anyone know if this was a private pub or was it done for someone, or some organization? and does anyone know where we can find this publication?

Carl Boyer is a famous name in genealogy.

http://www.scgsgenealogy.com/JamBio/CarlBoyer.htm

http://www.bookfinder.com/author/carl-boyer/

Justin, Ok... I am going to look. Thanks for the info.

Also, here is what I found about Anjou, found here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustav_Anjou

I have ordered Boyers 3rd edition. I wanted to know his sources... and that is one way to find out.

I think I have done everything I can do to get as much info as i can... Will come back re Tallman, after reciving return letters and ordered books. In the meantime i am still trying to get some answers to some Baker questions I have.

Sally, We have a Geni project on Gustave Anjou:

http://www.geni.com/projects/Gustav-Anjou-Fraudulent-Genealogist

Justin, Yep, i found that too... thanks.

Dora (Munter) Zisser was added as a daughter of Moises Munter as was Abe Munter added as a son. I later found that these two siblings, their spouses and descendants all belonged to Casper Munter with sibling David Munter. Moises Munter should still have two and only two children, Charles Munter and Henry Munter. The system will not let me fix this as it would "split the tree." The double parents are not listed under the relationship tab so I can't hit remove on the wrong one. Help, please

OK, I have received more info on the Tallman line. a gentleman from the National Genealogical Society sent me the pages of Boyer's 3rd ed of Ancestral Lines. From what I read it is a toss up. Some comments (detailed below) made by Mr. Boyer, that indicate to me that there simply is no resolution to this mystery. He states the following along with the lineage from Belgium. Here is what he says:

The history of this line leaves a number of questions unanswered. Who was Philip Hill of Barbados? What happened to Ann Hill, wife of Peter Tallman? After the divorce did she marry Thomas Durfee? Was he some years her junior? Was Robert Durfee her son? When C Andrews Moriarty wrote that Henry Tallman of Schle4swig-Holstein was the probably rfather of Peter Tallmanm of Hamburg, Barbados and Rhode Island, he presented no direct evidence, listing only dates of christenings for Perer's two supposed sisters in the parish of St. Nicholas, but none for Peter himself. Dorothy S. Hadlock, who in 1972 resided at 28 North State St., Apt 13, Sal;t Lake City, Utah, had left several years previously some charts in the library of the Genealogical Society there from which the data below are taken. She cited the city archives of Antwerp, the Hamburg State Archives and Prof. Dr. Hans Kellingusen as her sources.

The details must be subjected to a process of confirmation as Mrs. Hadlock did not list the parishes where christenings took place and did not identify clearly the sources of each bit data. Thus the materials presented below are provisionally, and with reservations, although the data from Hamburg has been checked with positive results.

Attempts to contact Mrs. Hadlock, Dr. Kellinghusen and others involved in the research were unsuccesful. Dr. Kellinghusen died abnout 1970, according to a letter to this compiler from Dr. Loose, Oberarchivratof the Stastarchiv Hamburg, Mrs. Hadlock stated that a Dutch genealogist, William Zweers, who was a resident of Salt Lake City, was the person who corresponded with Dr. Kellinghusen and others; however, Mr. Zweers was not in Utah in 1976.

The Tallman genealogy continues to be treated in "The Greater Tallman Family Newsletter", published twice annually by Nancy Tallman of 26301 Jefferson, #202, St. Clair Shores, MI 488081 (1995).

Doris M. Langbehn of 40250 Mendocino Pass Road, Covelo, CA 85428 (1993), has kindly provided additional citations to printed sources, and noted that Mary Hill (Jonathan) married Isaac Lawton, son of Isaac and Elizabeth (Tallman) Lawton. Was Jonathan Hill related to Ann Hill in any way?

Mr. Boyer goes on to say more re: George Andrews Moriarty:

G. Andrews Moriarty was responsible for the publication of a deposition by Peter Tallman of Portsmouth on 13 Mar 1702/3, and found in the records of that town: (I leave this out, since it is in the MP about me page of Peter Tallman)
This deposition was reprinted from NEHGR (register) 69 (1915): 90 in Genealogies of Rhode Island Families from the New England Historical and Genealogical Register (Baltimore, 1989, 2:258, and supports Mrs Langbehn's thinking that Peter's wife Ann Hill, was considerably younger than he, and thus perhaps a little more than ten years older than Thomas Durfee.

Me. Boyer's book as already been shipped to me, and I await it, hoping for info on other NE families. I think, it is not a good idea to do any further merges of the line of Tallman past Peter b. 1623 due to the ambiguity of the situation.

Mr. Boyer not me. Boyer, sorry for the typo.

I would like to request that in my line of Tallmans (as I see it under direct preferences) that somewhere on that profile of Henry Tallman b. 1589, d. 1632 from Hanburg, that there is a statement that says do not merge with any other name other than Henry Tallman, and that Maria Von Peene be removed as the wife of Henry here
(http://www.geni.com/family-tree#6000000007296141287)

and replaced with Anna____ , which is what I entered originally when I first came on Geni and entered the Tallman line from my sources. which included notations of Moriarty's research and Peter Tallman's deposition by Joseph Sheffield. I added this depositon in the about me profile of Peter when I entered him in Geni.

re: note about not merging.

A better way to handle that may be to have a curator make them Master Profiles in that area, including parents, so that the relationships will not be disturbed by arbitrary merges ... and the data of the M.P.'s are thus preserved as well.

Dan, That's all and well good, but somehow that did not work too well with regard to 2 MPs of Peter Tallman one born in 1607 and the other1623, both claiming the same wives with correct dates, both claiming the next generation also. That took a lot of nagging and begging for a good look see here to finally straighten that out. The problem is that Peter Tallman needs to be locked, AFTER his parentage of Henry Tallman and Anna____ have been restored.

Dan, You see when i pull up my line going from present back through generation to generation, when I get to Peter 1623, I get his parents as Henry and Von Peene. Not Henry and Anna. And there are merges in my merge box under profiles I manage of both Peter, and Henry. If I merge Henry I get stuck with Von Peene, and if I merge Peter I get Peter without Henry and Anna as parents.

If I go in and remove parentage of Peter 1623, and re enter his parentage, can I lock that new profile of Peter so it does not get mixed up the way it has gotten mixed up? When I read Mr. Boyer and what he had to say about the legitimacy of the Belgium line, I really felt that it was not a sure thing, too many inconsistancies. I prefer to hang my hat with the Moriarty research. And that is what I qould like in my part of the tree. As for the Mercys that are listed as children of Peter, I did not see that either in the emery publication nor did I see it in the Boyer pages sent to me today via email from the NGS. In Bioyer I did see a mention of Ruth as a child of Peter, the source he listed was the family papers and research of a Mrs. O. E. Chatfield in 1914. I think a search of vital stats of Ruth might be in order, and is a hardier proof. However, the matter of Ruth and Mercy does not concern me as much as the parentage of Peter, since they are not in my direct line.

Sally, yes. That is the way to do it ... if necessary, create an "unknown" placeholder for "correct" parents, then disconnect the incorrect parents. Once made into Master Profiles by a Curator, then merge requests won't willy-nilly (arbitrarily) confuse the relationships.

There are some good examples of this approach in the "Mayflower" Project lineage.

It is usually o.k. to leave (as NON-M.P.'s!) some speculative children or spouses for which there are reasonable references (as opposed to true "sources"). The documented (sourced) children are also good candidates for being M.P.'s.

Dan, I am stuck. There are no parents listed in the relationships of my Benjamin Tallman son of Peter Tallman 1623, so I am unable to remove Peter as the parent so I can put in new Peter. Nor can I remove any parents from Peter 1623 because there is not option to allow me to do it. I will try the place holder... see if I can do that.

Nope, no can do either. There is no yellow arrow on either profile, Benjamin or peter, allowing me to create another Peter 1623, father of Benjamin.

I have taken out and re-added from Benjamin b. 1684 on back. I hope I do not have to do this again, this the 2nd time I have had to do this.

Angus, Please look at this. Henry Tallman's father was not Jacques or Tannnekn. That is a different line. Can we please not mix the Belgian line with the German line? This is in my merge basket.
http://www.geni.com/family-tree/index/6000000007260755568?resolve=6...
Thank you for your help.