Gustaf II Adolf Vasa, King of Sweden - Children that were never heard of

Well wrote in plural but mainly meant this pne, never heard of him:

Nikolaus Ordener

All the other children can be found in normal Swedish sources, SBL, Elgenstierna etc.

Nicolaus is speculative. Nicolaus has a profile here: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Ordener-22

"This ancestor would have been, according to some, an illegitimate son of Gustav II Adolf Vasa (1594-1632), King of Sweden, and an Austrian countess. [2]"

Henrion, Lucien. Le Général Michel Ordener, Comte de l'Empire, Sénateur. p58. In Mémoires de l'Académie Nationale de Metz, ANM, 1986.

https://www.myheritage.fi/research/collection-10109/wikitree?action...

So, the question remains: Why is he linked as a child instead of just his name mentioned as a link in the bio as we see on many other speculative connections on geni? I find it slightly annoying that there appears to be several different policies in place for same sort of situations. I am sure if he was even a realistically speculated a child of Gustaf Adolf, there would be a couple or even one mention of him in the swedish records. Personally I feel it's dodgy to say the least. We have pretty reasonable records from this time in Sweden and even very detailed descriptions about many personal details have survived.

Please, Erja you are not seriously recommending another genealogy site that echoes in a reverberation with geni as a serious source? You must understand that is not a proper source.

I agree this should be detached unless we can find a primary source which firmly supports the relationship.

See also the profiles for Michel Ordener:

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Ordener-85

Michel Ordener

His ancestor was Swedish, of formerly illustrious origin (as Théophile-Malo de La Tour d'Auvergne-Corret said, without directly naming him, and of which George Sand wrote in her book "Histoire de ma Vie" Volume 2 Chapter 7 p23), and whose civil discords took him away from his native land. A refugee in Hungary, then in Germany, he had finally found rest under the government of the King of Poland. He then was looking for to found an industrial establishment with modest but serious resources offered by the region of Saint-Avold (Duchy of Lorraine). He did not succeed and died. [2] This ancestor would have been, according to some, an illegitimate son of Gustav II Adolf Vasa (1594-1632), King of Sweden, and an Austrian countess. [3]

"according to some" is speculative, and not grounds for connecting to a notable profile such as a King.

Michel Ordener

The journal mentioned in WikiTree and by D Bruno above can be found here for 1986. They do not specify which month, only page 58. And again, this is still speculation being written about, not birth records or anything which qualifies as a primary source which would establish a relationship.

https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k12937919

Precisely, Karrie. Thank you.

The above reasoning also indicates that the mother om Michel Ordener should be removed as a spouse of King Gustav II Adolf, as Kunigunde was never married to Gustav II Adolf, and their relationship is wholly speculative.

Tryggve Gestrin Thank you for catching this, I agree with you.

There is no verifiable evidence of anyone named Cunégonde Ordener being married to the king. On Geni, sources are always prioritized.

The claim that ""Nicolas, who was possibly an ancestor of General Michel Ordener (1755–1811), may have had Swedish heritage"" is highly speculative and lacks supporting evidence. Without sources uch claims are vague and unreliable, and should be treated as conjecture, belonging in the general information section rather than in the family tree."

Maria, thanks for bringing this up, no one else noticed for 8 years.
There is no policy supporting speculative connections.
When a Swedish king spent years in Germany in the 1630s it would not be out of the ordinary to have an illegitimate child there. To claim that only Swedish sources could prove if that was true or not is ridiculous. Erja posted the same Wikitree link I did, probably because she didn't see my post before posting.

Tryggve, thanks for pointing out the speculative marriage.

Saga, thanks for cutting the connections.

Re: To claim that only Swedish sources could prove if that was true or not is ridiculous

Private User What do you mean here? No one made such a claim.

Private User Hopefully it was also clear to you that I was copying in the speculative/incorrect parts of the bios for these profiles? I did note this as well to call attention to it.

A curator locking the relationship fields might be a good idea since this will likely pop back up due to the volume of existing trees "out there" with the speculative connection in place as a factual relationship.