Constance Mathilde FitzRoy, Vicountess de Maine - Constance Mathilde FitzRoy, Vicountess de Maine - why the FitzRoy name?

Started by Erica Howton on today
Problem with this page?

Participants:

Profiles Mentioned:

Related Projects:

Showing all 8 posts

Copying over a query from Elaine Lowery James at https://www.geni.com/discussions/158450?msg=1719036

I see Constance Mathilde FitzRoy, Viscountess de Maine, listed as my 24th Great-Grandmother.

She is shown as daughter of Henry I "Beauclerc", King of England, and Matilda of Scotland, and

granddaughter of William FitzRobert, Duke of Normandy, King of England William the Conquerer, and Matilda of Flanders.

Should her name be FitzRobert rather than FitzRoy?

She is also shown as Empress Matilda, wife of Henry V, Holy Roman Emperor and Geoffroy V, Count of Anjou, Maine and Mortain.

Elaine Lowery James

Terry Jackson (Switzer)

Hope you are keeping well.

I know "FitzRoy" is a convention used for surnames of illegitimate children of kings.

But isn't it in fact too early for her to have had a surname used?

Medlands doesn't have any for her.

Elaine Lowery James

Empress Matilda is Constance's half sister. Same father, different mothers.

Her mother is not the Matilda who was a daughter of Eadgyth of Scotland. Her mother is one of the unknown mistresses of Henry I. Henry had several daughters named Matilda, or a derivative thereof. There is definitely some conflation going on here.

She is correctly shown as being married to Roscelin de Beaumont, but she is incorrectly given the appellation of Viscountess du Maine. That would fall to Empress Matilda

In this case FitzRoy is not intended as a surname, but as an indicator of her relationship to the King. At least that's my take on it.

I removed “Countess of Maine.”

Douglas Richardson calls her “Constance of England.”

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/FitzRoy-104

"Royal Ancestry" 2013 by Douglas Richardson Vol. I. page 302

Henry I, King of England, by a mistress, _____.
Constance Of England, Illegitimate daughter. He (She) married before 1130 Roscelin De Beaumont, Vicomte de Beaumont et Maine, son of Raoul de Beaumont, Vicomte de Beaumont et Maine, etc., by _____, daughter of Guy II de Laval, Count of Laval. They had three sons, Richard [Vicomte de Beaumont et Maine], Guillaume, and Raoul [Bishop of Angers]. His wife Constance, was living in 1175. Roscelin De Beaumont died in 1176.

Medlands is here.

http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLAND,%20Kings%201066-1603.htm#Co...

Constance and her husband do not have English Wikipedia pages, but she’s listed (in red, meaning no page yet) near the bottom of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_I_of_England

Daughters
5. Constance, Viscountess of Beaumont-sur-Sarthe;[342]

Footnote

342. Thompson 2003, pp. 148–149

Thompson, Kathleen (2003). "Affairs of State: the Illegitimate Children of Henry I". Journal of Medieval History. 29 (2): 129–151. doi:10.1016/S0304-4181(03)00015-0. ISSN 0304-4181. S2CID 144398531.


It looks like Wikipedia is inconsistent in using “FitzRoy” as a sutname for the illegitimate children.

Here’s the URL to Thompson’s article for abstract and citation list. Constance is not mentioned in this view (permission needed for the full article).

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1016/S0304-4181%2803%2900015-0

http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/MAINE.htm#Roscelindied1176 for her family and Latin names: Mathildem in one charter; “Constantia vicecomitissa” after marriage.

https://cybergata.com/roots/8927.htm cites

Cockayne's Complete Peerage, (Appendix D), Vol. XI, pp. 105-121

Constance, named also Maud, who married Roscelin de Beaumont, hereditary vicomteé of Maine, styled Vicomté de Beaumont, Lord of Beaumont-le-Vicomté (alias Beaumont-sur-Sarthe), Fresnay and Ste.-Suzanne, son of Ralph de Beaumont, by sister of Guy de Laval. Henry I gave South Tawton (Devon), to Roscelin de Beaumont in marriage with his daughter Constance. They had 2 sons.

So, I see where “Countess of Maine” came from.

So far, to me, “Constance, Viscountess of Beaumont-sur-Sarthe” would be the clearest display name?

Showing all 8 posts

Create a free account or login to participate in this discussion