John William of Cleves Johann Wilhelm Wilhelm

Jo-Anne NH1995382 Wheeler Richards

3/3/2023 at 11:52 AM

From the book Anna, Duchess of Cleves: The King's Beloved Sister written by Heather R. Darsie who is an historian specializing in Early Modern history of Germany and England. "On 14 September 1584, Johann Wilhelm was engaged to Jakobe von Baden. They wed on 16 June 1585 in the chapel of the rebuilt Dusseldorf castle. Their marriage was an utter disaster. At some point before the marriage, Johann Wilhelm began a long-term affair with a woman of low social rank named Anna op den Graeff. The relationship was known to have produced one illegitimate son, Herman op den Graeff, born in 1585"

Livio Scremin

3/3/2023 at 2:01 PM

talking about 2021 John William of Cleves Johann Wilhelm Wilhelm DUP of:
MP 2007 Duke Johann Wilhelm of Jülich-Cleves-Berg

I think if you can also give a link of the source, the admins and (C) who receive this notification might be curiously interested to accommodate now an alleged line of illegitimate child..

..in 2021 this had plunged into the Middle Ages with an unknown wife and child, and also leaving merge conflicts everywhere.
(under other present conflicts.. example on Katherine Jensen :)

Erica Howton C

3/3/2023 at 2:54 PM

Cross reference: Gertude Conrad

Livio Scremin

3/3/2023 at 3:03 PM

is this the book?
-https://www.amazon.com/Anna-Duchess-Cleves-Beloved-Sister/dp/144567...
Anna, Duchess of Cleves: The King's Beloved Sister

'The King's Beloved Sister' looks at Anne of Cleves from a new perspective, as a woman from the Holy Roman Empire and not as a woman living almost by accident in England. Starting with what Anne’s life as a child and young woman was like, the author describes the climate of the Cleves court, and the achievements of Anne’s siblings. It looks at the political issues on the Continent that transformed Anne’s native land of Cleves - notably the court of Anne’s brother-in-law, and its influence on Lutheranism - and Anne’s marriage. Finally, Heather Darsie explores ways in which Anne influenced her step-daughters Elizabeth and Mary, and the evidence of their good relationships with her.

Was Anne - the Duchess Anna - in fact a political refugee, supported by Henry VIII? Was she a role model for Elizabeth I? Why was the marriage doomed from the outset? By returning to the primary sources and visiting archives and museums all over Europe (the author is fluent in German, and proficient in French and Spanish) a very different figure emerges to the 'Flanders Mare'.

Erica Howton C

3/3/2023 at 3:06 PM

Jo-Anne NH1995382 Wheeler Richards - this is the Geni Master Profile for Isaac Hermann op den Graeff

Which matches your profile for Isacks Hermans Graeff, DUP whom you show as father of Gertrude Conrad

What is the evidence he had a daughter Gertrude? I see the linking at https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/G8WQ-J2B.

Her profile there cites sources, but those sources “do not” show parents for her.

I have not yet reviewed all the sources the FamilySearch profile for Isacks Hermans Op den Graeff lists, https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/L8Q8-LKK, but there’s an obvious discrepancy.

The Peter Conrad family was Mennonite. The Op den Graeff’s were Quaker.

Isaac Hermans op den Graeff, b. in 1616, married Grietjen Peters (d. 1679), was converted with his family to Quakerism. His widow, who died in Philadelphia 19 October 1683, his three sons Derick (Dirk) Isaacs, Herman Isaacs, and Abraham Isaacs, and a daughter Margrit (m. later to Peter Schumacher, immigrant from Kriegsheim who arrived in 1685) emigrated to Germantown as part of the 13 famous first families on the Concord, arriving at Philadelphia, 6 October 1683, settling in Germantown soon thereafter.

Livio Scremin

3/3/2023 at 3:07 PM

Publisher ‏ : ‎ Amberley Publishing (July 1, 2019)

About the Author
Heather Darsie works as a licensed attorney in the US. As well as her legal qualifications she has a BA in German, which was of great value in her research in the archives of Germany, Switzerland and the Nether lands for this book. She is currently studying for her Master of Arts in Early Modern History. She runs MaidensAndManuscripts.com and regularly contributes to QueenAnneBoleyn.com and TudorDynasties.com. She has been researching The King's Beloved Sister for 6 years.

Erica Howton C

3/3/2023 at 3:26 PM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_op_den_Graeff

Herman Op den Graeff was the first historically proven member of the Op den Graeff family. He was born on 26 November 1585 in Aldekerk, Germany. Some believe that Duke John William, Duke of Jülich-Cleves-Berg had a morganatic marriage prior to 1585 with Anna op den Graeff (van de Aldekerk), with whom he had a son, Herman op den Graeff.[2][3] No substantial evidence of any relation between the Op den Graeff and John William, Duke of Jülich-Cleves-Berg has ever been presented, so most likely that connection is non-existent.

2. Krefeld Immigrants and Their Descendants, Bände 7-12, p 15 ff and 53 ff, Links Genealogy Publications, 1990
3. Anna, Duchess of Cleves: The King's 'Beloved Sister', by Heather R. Darsie . Some claim the records were destroyed in the conflict between Protestants and Catholics at the time but regardless because Anna op den Graeff was of low social rank, Johann Wilhelm's titles and privileges were not passed on to their son and he was considered officially without an heir

Livio Scremin

3/3/2023 at 4:26 PM

Therefore Herman Isacks Opdengraeff is a 2021 DUP..

..of 2007 MP Bishop Hermann Isaac op den Graeff :)

John William of Cleves Johann Wilhelm Wilhelm - Johann Wilhelm of Cleves

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