James Lewis Armstrong, Jr. - :Lineage from John Lewis Armstrong to William (Christie's Will) Armstron was messed by a member.

Started by Shelby Thomas Armstrong, Jr. on Tuesday, January 31, 2023
Problem with this page?

Participants:

Profiles Mentioned:

Related Projects:

Showing 1-30 of 244 posts

I. Shelby T Armstrong have been a Professional Genealogist for 25 years. I have been a member of Ancestry.com since it started. Have done DNA testing that confirmed my family tree. Most of my Armstrong lineage that I have put out on Ancestry back to the first 12 generations back to Edward Terwinney Armstrong and his wife Margret Mary Maguire. It took years of research and collection of documents from numerous sources. Mine is accurate lineage with sources on the internet. Someone mixed up there line of my great grandfather and placed it under his brother Capt. William Armstrong Never joined Geni PRO because when you build your tree, some change your information, you don’t stand a chance. That is the nice thing about Ancestry.com. No member can change or add to your family tree unless you invite them to make changes if you trust them and let you know of the changes first to approve them. WikiTree is just about as bad, and Family Search is even worse.

My Grandparents: [Armstrong lineage back to the 4th century]
Col. William 'Christie's Will' Armstrong and Margret Mary Maguire - 10th Great Grandparents
Edward Terwinney Armstrong and Margret Mary Maguire - 9th Great Grandparents
James Armstrong I and Jane Ross Beatye - 8th Great Grandparents
James Armstrong II and Catherine Jane Campbell - 7th Great Grandparents
James Armstrong III and Mary Jane "Janey" Campbell - 6th Great Grandparents
Gen. John Armstrong and Mary Elizabeth Graham - 5th Great Grandparents
Richard Armstrong and Margaret Osborn - 4th Great Grandparents
James Armstrong Sr. and Nancy Wilson – 3rd Great Grandparents
James Armstrong Jr. and Elizabeth Wilson - 2nd Great Grandparents
Elias A W Armstrong and Elizabeth C. Bryant - Great Grandparents
William W Armstrong and Sarah "Sadie" Jane Maupin – Grandparents
Shelby Thomas Armstrong Sr. and Lois Mae Pratt – Parents
Shelby T Armstrong Jr and Marjorie Fern George – Myself

It was me that published the OVERVIEW information for James Armstrong II and Catherine Jane Campbell, but someone changed the name to James Lewis Armstrong, and that corrupted the lines between James Armstrong II and Catherine Jane Campbell and everything between to Edward Terwinney Armstrong and Margret Mary Maguire. Son of Col. William 'Christie's Will' Armstrong. Not Williams other son, Captain William Armstrong.

Thank you for posting.

Unlike other collaborative trees, we (volunteer curators) can “Lock” profile data, so it cannot be changed except by curators, who act based on requests and cited records.

See https://help.geni.com/hc/en-us/articles/229704047-What-is-a-Master-...

https://help.geni.com/hc/en-us/articles/229706727

We have a discussion to service MP requests:

Curators: Please make this profile a Master Profile

https://www.geni.com/discussions/217560

I’ll work with the notes (above) and see what I can do to fix the tree. I may come back at you with questions, and will advise when done.

Clearly, not in this tree.

I did not add the parents but I did add their duplicates and merge in order to manage— you curated my 6th great grandfather but I have not worked further back

Not “clearly” so I asked.

Cynthia Curtis, A183502, US7875087 - I don’t know where your James Lewis Armstrong belongs.

This discussion from genealogist Shelby Thomas Armstrong, Jr. describes his lineage, which does not include a “James Lewis” and he notes an error:

t was me that published the OVERVIEW information for James Armstrong II and Catherine Jane Campbell, but someone changed the name to James Lewis Armstrong, and that corrupted the lines between James Armstrong II and Catherine Jane Campbell and everything between to Edward Terwinney Armstrong and Margret Mary Maguire.

(That’s the “clearly,”)

So for this discussion, I’m working on Shelby’s line to try and get it straightened out for him.

Shelby Thomas Armstrong, Jr. - I need your help, please.

Can you list out or point to a site that has the children of James ‘of Paxtang’ Armstrong, Il & Catherine Jane ‘Mary’ Armstrong

And also those of James ‘of Brookboro’ Armstrong & Jane Ross Armstrong

The Armstrongs have been merged together too much without “child” listings , so I’m a bit stuck.

I think I understand “above” James l and “below John” - but there were two Johns in the area, and I don’t think “yours” was the one who married Rebecca Lyon.

https://www.werelate.org/wiki/Person:John_Armstrong_%28122%29

Read only access to Ancestry tree will of course help also.

Erica Howton yes, I am aware and extremely excited to see this !
The names of these attached parents for my 6th greta grandfather are almost identical and I know David has asked many questions in attempts to get them correct.
I am mostly on the sidelines on the edge of my seat.
This is why I LOVE Geni.
Thank you so so much

We posted at the same time
Tagging the managers
David K. Brown
Karl David Wright who I mistakenly called David :)

Shelby Thomas Armstrong, Jr. -

Can you clarify for me please the line from

Edward ‘from the Border’ Armstrong

Where exactly does James ‘of Brookboro’ Armstrong fit in?

I may speak up again later as I have much catching up to do in reading through the whole discussion, along with the numerous merges that have occurred on both the Colonial American and Northern Ireland Armstrong lines, many without proper sources or good matching of facts.

The continuous merging especially is very difficult to keep up with. But here is just one isolated example of a merge I find impossible to agree with or understand (and may help explain how the name was altered on our profile currently under discussion):

https://www.geni.com/merge/view?revision_id=79914255250

There are several obvious discrepencies within this merge of two completely different individuals, yet it easily went through in 2021 and still stands as completed along with erroneous facts introduced into the merged MP profile. These two mismatched profiles were born in different Irish towns and died in completely different US states. Neither their wives nor their children match up.

((Whenever I make a bad merge I would welcome some help in pointing out my error and in correcting my mistake. And I don't mind keeping everything above board and on the table in public view, since it is after all a publicly shared tree. I'm not embarrassed by my mistakes unless they should happen to slip by unnoticed. Even if we disagree I prefer being able to discuss openly and freely, and on public record. I endeavor to help build our branches with integrity, in hopes that they may eventually connect proudly to the world tree. And I try to be meticulous enough not to create excessive work for others, so I'm in no great hurry. Researching my own direct family ancestry keeps me busy enough as it is.))

I appreciate all help in keeping the complex Armstrong lines clean (reasonably well-documented and strong, not overly sparse or fractured). Faulty merges have long been a concern yet I hardly feel equipped to monitor them adequately alone, without help from other interested descendants and responsible curators like Erica.

I'm afraid if I look too closely at our Armstrongs I might find much that should be undone, redone, or eliminated until presentation of further proof. It's a big family of many branches with a fondness for using many of the same ancestral names. Location and chronology, along with marriage, military, immigration, and census records, is key to sorting them out. The further back we go the more we have to rely on contemporary (i.e. in *their time) published histories and church registers, as family bibles and other lost records (due to war, neglect, or disaster) only result in lost data and too much speculation.

The number of whimsical merges I've witnessed in recent years has me overwhelmed and in fear of making waves that might rock the boat. :D ...I would hardly know where to begin, at any rate. And with all my other research there's barely enough time for it. But I strongly feel it would benefit from a carefully thorough genealogical audit. A close look at all past merges, in particular. Some popular profiles have lengthy revision lists perhaps worthy of inspection and analysis. Genealogy requires a delicate balance between attention to minute details and the ability to see the whole picture.

I clearly understand the importance of collaborative discussion (or at very least a presentation of fairly solid evidence directly on profiles by some approved means, on which to base decisions) before making either connections or cuts in historically significant pedigrees.

While I'm no professional genealogist or Armstrong family expert, I seem to be related to some of them and would like my connections with this family I find so admirable to be based in solid facts. I can't present a fully documented Armstrong pedigree, but can see where connections and merges have occasionally been built on fancy or error. I just have a hard time keeping up with changes so numerous and swiftly made. I don't have time to spend in constant fact-checking and discussion of possible errors, in other words. My own snail-paced work keeps me fully occupied, lol.

Anyway, I'm descended from Armstrongs directly through my maternal line and indirectly (by marriage only) through my paternal line. I have a lot to learn about their many branches, so always appreciative of clarification wherever possible.

Oh and I nearly forgot to add, perhaps belatedly: How should we handle these two?

Edward ‘from the Border’ Armstrong
Edward Armstrong, of the Virginia Colony

And these two?

Robert [1] Armstrong
Robert [1] Armstrong

In the third paragraph above, I should have said, "conflicting facts" (not erroneous facts, sorry).

I'm also a direct Armstrong descendant and have been working on things in County Fermanagh for a while.

I have faith in several things there, and we should be cautious not to disrupt those:
(1) Any marriage that has "Church of Ireland - Clogher" comes from records and can be counted upon.
(2) The children of John Joseph Armstrong and Susanna can be counted upon and they have DNA evidence and marriage records backing them up.
(3) There are a ton of cousin marriages among the Armstrongs that seem to come from the descendants of William Armstrong . There are some DNA matches I have that I believe descend from those.
(4) The wife of Nathaniel Fields is genetically an Armstrong and she is closely related to John Joseph. Right now she's a niece, which is fine, but she shouldn't be further away than that really.
(5) There's one other DNA match which descends from a John Armstrong who moved to Glasgow. If you run into him, he's approximately placed correctly now genetically (he's descended from Edward of Terwhinney, I believe, or was anyhow. I cannot find him anymore.)

Thank you, Private User helpful comments.

Let’s try to do your pedigree next - can you generate a simple list like Shelby did?

Edward Armstrong, of the Virginia Colony looks like a different line to me, at least so far. I undid a merge on William W. Armstrong and “broke it off” from the Brookesboro Armstrongs.

The Robert [1 Armstrong] are hard to tell so far, it looks like there were two same name brothers.

To me, the key to a tidy tree is a strong “about”.

I like a consistent structure.

Name, vital statistics, family (parents, spouse, & children; children easiest to read in chronological list format, with spouses after their names), Biography, records, references.

It’s the family listing that helps me the most. The SmartCopy utility has a “Biography maker” which can easily create the family list section from the existing tree structure. Then we all can proofread against the tree, and less to curators being able to lock relationships.

Karl David Wright as Cynthia noted, you’ve worked very hard on this tree.

Can you also do a simple pedigree list, like Shelby did & I invited Debra to do? I found Shelby’s very helpful in finding the stress points.

https://www.geni.com/merge/view?revision_id=80022155470

https://www.geni.com/merge/view?revision_id=83056698020
Elizabeth ‘of Brookeborough’ Marshall
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/5692857/elizabeth-marshall

Elizabeth (Armstrong) Marshall has conflicting parentage due to a faulty merge. She and her husband are quite early settlers in PA, and her husband's will stating that he is from Armstrong Township, Westmoreland Co., PA, is included on his Findagrave profile. Doesn't help pinpoint her parents, though valuable for other purposes.

Really just scratched the surface, and already up to my neck in another project. Wish I could be more helpful. Sometimes it seems rebuilding them from the ground up would be the best course of action.

Disconnected Mary Ann Brandon as child of James ‘of Paxtang’ Armstrong, Il based on biography at https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/22487692/george-brandon


Yes, sketching a brief tree (just a couple of Gens usually) from the “create a branch” option, sourcing them, and “then” presenting for merge can be a useful way to cut through the murk.

Erica Howton, remember I'm working with Ireland records and with DNA matches. My process has been to work with what was there and add what was clearly missing. What I saw was that the tree we started with was based on immigrants to the New World, and sometimes not even all of those. And also I've noted cases where the children were assumed to be complete even though they were based on a will, and wills often didn't mention children who emigrated or died.

I've mostly worked on the family of John Joseph Armstrong, because he's the clear parent of Mary Armstrong, who married Samuel Wright. Other than to maintain the relationships as they were, and account for some of the Clogher records, I've done very little else. I've listed the exceptions to that rule already.

Pedigree that I'm certain of:

John Joseph Armstrong - Susanna - Five Mile Town, Fermanagh
Samuel Wright - Mary Armstrong - Clogher and nearby Monaghan
George Wright - Isabella McKee - Clones, Monaghan
Thomas Wright - Rebecca Inskeep - Berlin, NJ
John Wright - Hannah Peacock - Berlin NJ
Albert Wright - Estelle Martin - Philadelphia and Laurel Springs, NJ
WIlliam John Wright - Ella May Snyder - Wayne, PA
Harold Wright - Ruth Wurster - various
me

Please let me know if you intend to start working with John Joseph Armstrong or his siblings. Everything else I will wait and see where it winds up.

Erica, as always you are such a good and patient teacher, thank you so much. I appreciate structure too and plan to work thenceforth on consistently following your excellent example in order to facilitate our collaborative efforts. I agree,

"The key to a tidy tree is a strong “about”...I like a consistent structure...Name, vital statistics, family (parents, spouse, & children; children easiest to read in chronological list format, with spouses after their names), Biography, records, references...It’s the family listing that helps me the most..."

I get that you mean to establish relevant 'family groups' for reference. And to have Abouts information be organized in a consistent orderly fashion so as to make them easier for you and others to read. That is a fair and reasonable expectation; it's simply a matter of mindfully/conscientiously following your example until I get into the right habit. Your provision of a logical outline is very helpful and I notice that some other curators follow similar rules. You posted it yesterday on another discussion and I copied it for future reference because I like the idea very much.

However I was unaware, since I don't use it and in fact have some reservations about its use, that "The SmartCopy utility has a “Biography maker” which can easily create the family list section from the existing tree structure. Then we all can proofread against the tree, and less to curators being able to lock relationships." I'm a little dubious, but if you are able to make good use of it, I'm all for it. I just don't see how I personally would find any use for it.

Of my maternal connection, Geni shows this for me:

Debra Ann Denman
You → Betty Jo Thompson
your mother → Arthur Grady Thompson, Sr.
her father → Dr. James Isaac Thompson
his father → Sarah Selina Cathey
his mother → James Rutherford Cathey
her father → Captain James Cathey
his father → Alexander Cathey
his father → John Alexander Cathey
his father → Margaret Armstrong
his mother → John Armstrong
her father → Col. William 'Christie's Will' Armstrong
his father

And Geni doesn't flag any inconsistencies in my line, for what that's worth. :)

https://www.geni.com/inconsistencies/path?from_id=60000000023895530...

____________________________________________

Of the Armstrong who was (briefly) my paternal grandmother's second husband, I have yet to identify him.

However I was unaware, since I don't use it and in fact have some reservations about its use, that "The SmartCopy utility has a “Biography maker” which can easily create the family list section from the existing tree structure. Then we all can proofread against the tree, and less to curators being able to lock relationships." I'm a little dubious, but if you are able to make good use of it, I'm all for it. I just don't see how I personally would find any use for it.

So let’s say you’ve put together a dozen siblings on geni, but there isn’t a published genealogy to quote from to proofread against (which is my preferred method).

SmartCopy can “scrape the screen” of the Geni Family tree and paste it, with links to profiles, in the parent “about.” The function is called “bio maker” and you don’t need to use any other aspect of SC.

It also gives nice “header” information, including occupation. And from there one can tweak if so inclined. It’s a lot faster, easier & more accurate than typing in names one at a time.

And, I do find the process of making a biography a great way to error trap, as well as to learn & understand about the person. I actually try to build from bottom up, with a reference list, just as we were taught in college (“first, make your bibliography … “).

Cross referencing useful discussion at https://www.geni.com/discussions/217680?msg=1411306

Erica Howton, I'm intrigued by this feature "bio-maker" but cannot seem to find how to invoke it in Smart Copy. When I open Smart Copy over a tree view profile, or whether I have the profile URL itself open, doesn't matter - no such option, at least as far as I can find. Lots of research hints and circle graphs but nothing called "bio maker". Any hints?

It is not working at this time-- I reported it several days ago-- see the Curator help discussion as well as the Smart Copy Bug discussion.
Hopefully it will be back up soon as Geni Tech Support says it is a Smart Copy issue (I submitted a ticket and they responded)

Copying from the other discussion:

'I am not sure why Geni has entered me as a manager of Sir John Brooksboro Armstrong. My main interest is in the descendants of Andrew Armstrong, 1st cousin of Sir John’s father William. And here I will note that the apparent multiple parents of Sir John seem to be repetitions: it seems to be agreed that Sir John’s parents were William Armstrong (1602-1664) and Mary or Margaret Mary Maguire (1604-1650).) I think if the three Mary Maguires were merged we would get a clearer picture. I haven’t done this because there are some minor conflicts of date, and I don’t know where all the dates on these profiles come from.

I am dubious about the name Sir John Brooksboro. Middle names do not seem correct at this period. I am inclined to think he was Sir John Armstrong of Brookeborough (if he was a knight at all).

I am assuming that the discussion on Hannah Armstrong (Johnston) is irrelevant to this.

The following is a summary of my research on this branch. It doesn’t help with Sir John but it seems compatible with the picture on geni except for the absence from geni of Edward.

Registered Pedigrees (National Library of Ireland GO MS 171) has Andrew (see above) and William as sons of Christopher Armstrong Laird of Mangerton. William is described as 2nd son, settling in Fermanagh, and having at least two sons, the first being John Armstrong of Longfield near Cavan and the second being Alexander. The latter’s son was Martin Armstrong of CarricMaclyen co. Leitrim sheriff in 1737. John of Longfield’s children were:
(1) Martin of Longfield (killed in battle),
(2) Thomas, father of Isabella who married Rev. Edward Armstrong, and of Margaret who married Major Johnston),
(3) Robert (father of Robert who was father of Martin, Launcelot and others, and of Alexander who married Grissell Armstrong of Ballycumber, King’s co.),
(4) Daniel.
It is possible that this manuscript has more details that I didn’t copy.

The Pedigree of the Family of Armstrongs, compiled by John Armstrong Esq Engineer in Ordinary to His Majesty 1734 (National Library of Ireland MS 5216: but this version includes additions by others: there is a printed version of which I only have a copy of part) has Unknown and William as sons of Christopher Armstrong Laird of Mangerton, both migrating to Ireland. Unknown is the father of Andrew (see above). William of Fermanagh has 2 sons, John and Alexander, the latter being Sheriff of Leitrim in 1737 and Sheriff of Cavan in 1749. These dates seem impossible for Alexander but just about possible for Martin (see previous paragraph).

‘Chronicles of the Armstrongs’ edited by James Lewis Armstrong (online at https://archive.org/details/chroniclesofarms00arms/page/n7/mode/2up) says:
“In the reign of Charles I, when the old Border practices were not entirely discontinued, the tower of Gilnockie was occupied by William Armstrong called for distinction’s sake Christie’s Will, grandson to the famous John of Glinockie.” (p. 309)
“Tradition says that William was married to a distant relative called Margaret Elliot.” (p. 312)
“William Armstrong, son of Christopher Armstrong and grandson of the famous John of Gilnockie, left Scotland with his nephew Andrew some years after the death of Queen Elizabeth, and settled in the county of Fermanagh.” (p. 316)
“This William, son of Christopher and grandson of John of Gilnockie, was the identical Christie’s Will of ballad renown… The Armstrongs who first went to Ireland from Lanholm settled at a place now called Brookboro, near Enniskillen, County Fermanagh, soon after 1630, and later were buried at Agahvea.” (p. 317)
“Upon this second slab were recorded the births and deaths of Will’s sons Edward and Alexander, and also those of three of his grandsons, - sons of Edward, - John, Francis, and James.” (p. 318)
“William Armstrong, called Christie’s Will, settled in Ireland, County Fermanagh, about 1630; slain in battle, King Charles’s army, in which he was an officer; living 1641.” (p. 320)
In this book there is a reference to “Pedigree VI: Descendants of William Armstrong, younger son of Christopher Armstrong”. (p. 321) It looks like as if these pedigrees are to be found in the Gamble MSS, which should now be in the National Library of Ireland, but I have not identified them.
“About 1650 Edward from the Border, son of Christie’s Will, went from Brookboro, Fermanagh, to a place near Ederney in the same county.” (p. 328)'

The National Library of Ireland recently made a pile of documents available online. The only problem is that they aren't indexed in any useful way. :-(

There is quite a gap between the earliest Armstrongs, described above, and what is currently in GENI. Does anyone know of pedigrees for the immigrant Armstrongs of Pennsylvania? Of South Carolina? These must exist somewhere. We need that resource, as well as a pedigree from Fermanagh, up until the late 1600s/early 1700s. I had assumed the GENI tree came from one such, but sourcing is largely absent.

For what it is worth, I am pretty certain that there really is/was only one branch of Armstrongs in Fermanagh, and they really do descend from those as described above. Between 1690 and 1760 or so, many of them packed up and left for the New World, though, and we owe it to their descendants to work out the Ireland piece and where they fit in.

FWIW, I found another DNA link I created based on Armstrong lineage. See:

Unknown McClure

Note that this too is a fairly strong link and therefore would need to be a sister of John Joseph or a first cousin. Nothing else would be close enough.

I validated that there are no other ancestral trees with the link that work with the Armstrongs, by the way. The Clogher records describe this family pretty well and I've fleshed out their tree from this period based on them. Sources referenced. Direct reference to the Clogher marriage records here; might be worth looking for early Armstrong marriages in it. There are about 8 pages of marriages IIRC.

https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/100507:62077?tid=...

'Where does James Armstrong fit?'

Cynthia Curtis, A183502, US7875087, if I can see his (complete) family, I can guess at names of parents, and we can take it from there.
Be sure you're aware of any possibility of early children left in Ireland however.

What’s the support for origins of James Armstrong, of Orange County He had been attached to impossible parents. He got married in Delaware. Is there any evidence he was from Enniskillen at all?

Title: Irish Settlers in Early Delaware.

Reference for that James Armstrong’s father in law, Thomas Bird, I, of Christiana Hundred

https://www.wikitree.com/photo.php/0/08/Byrd-1544.pdf

Showing 1-30 of 244 posts

Create a free account or login to participate in this discussion