Alice Le Fleming (de Greystoke) - wrong husband?

Started by dale scott on Tuesday, May 17, 2022
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Shouldn't her husband be Edgar of Dunbart?

Weis' Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America before 1700, 8th Edition, 41:23-24, Edgar of Dunbar was the son of Gospatric II, and was living in 1140. Edgar married to Alice de Greystoke, daughter of Ivo Fitz Frone, Lord of Greystock. 160

https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/SCOTTISH%20NOBILITY.htm#EdgarMAlic...
GOSPATRICK, son of GOSPATRICK Earl of Northumberland & his wife --- (-[killed in battle Cowton Moor, near Northallerton 22 Aug 1138]).
Gospatrick & [his wife] had four children:
3. EDGAR . The first document quoted here indicates that Edgar was illegitimate but none of the other documents corroborate this statement. The History of Richard Prior of Hexham records the devastations of "Eadgarus filius nothus Cospatrici comitis et Robertus et Uctred filii Meldred, principales ac duces" in Northumbria, dated to the 1130s from the context[1493].
m ALICE, daughter of IVO FitzForne of Greystoke, Cumberland & his wife Agnes ---

https://our-royal-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com/p351.htm#...
Edgar of Beanley de Dunbar1
Last Edited 4 Apr 2020
M, #10528, d. after 1140
Father Gospatrick, 2nd Earl Dunbar, Earl of March, Baron of Beanley b. c 1070, d. 23 Aug 1138
Mother Sybil Morel
Edgar of Beanley de Dunbar married Alice Greystoke, daughter of Ives of Greystock and Agnes FitzWalter.2 Edgar of Beanley de Dunbar died after 1140.
Family
Alice Greystoke
Child
Agnes de Dunbar+
Citations
[S2585] Unknown author, Ancestral Roots of 60 Colonists by F. L. Weis, p. 48.
[S11565] The Scots Peerage, Vol. III, edited by Sir James Balfour Paul, p. 249.

Looks like somebody mixed up Alice with her niece, Alice daughter of Walter FitzIvo de Greystoke. Edgar of Dunbar is currently married to the niece; however, the primary source citation provided by MedLands explicitly states that Edgar married Walter's *sister*, not his *daughter*.

(Alice the niece is not found under Walter in MedLands. I have no idea how Michael Le Fleming got into this, as he is usually supposed to have been a generation earlier (c. 1085- after 1154) and to have married somebody (Alice?) de Stuteville. No documentation there either.)

By the way, Sir Michael le Fleming has a duplicate at Sir Michael le Fleming (Master Profile).

And somebody has been puffing up the Le Fleming ancestry. Hughes de Douai and Adele de Cambrai don't appear to have had a son Michael, and there is no reliable record of a "Beatrix de Beaumont, Countess of Oissy and Cervecoeur".

(Almost) done sorting Alice de Greystoke & Edgar ‘the Dauntless’ of Dunbar

She had been merged into Alice de Greystoke

So it looks like there are online trees that give Alice de Greystoke as a wife to Robert fitz Hugh Giffard in addition to Edgar. And there are others that give her brother Walter FitzIvo de Greystoke a daughter Alice, who married Giffard. But - neither existed, as far as I can see.

Fleming comes in with her daughter Agnes of Dunbar, heiress of Drigg given impossible dates, and married to a son of Michael le Fleming, II

Robert "FitzHugh" Giffard ad daughters, per MedLands:

ROBERT Giffard (-1209). His parentage is confirmed by the order dated 1200 under which "Willelmus Cumin" paid a fine for the marriage of "juniore filia Rob fil Hug" and part of her inheritance in Northamptonshire[446]. "Rob Giffard" paid a fine "p passag suo…feudi i militi in capite de dño R" in Wiltshire, dated 1201[447]. Domesday Descendants notes the death of Robert Giffard (son of Gerard Giffard, which appears from the source dated 1200 to be a mistake for Hugh) in 1209 "when his heirs were daughters married to Robert Mauduit, Robert de Mandeville and William Comin", but does not cite the corresponding primary source[448]. m ---. The name of Robert’s wife is not known. Robert & his wife had [four] children:

i) --- Giffard . Domesday Descendants notes the death of Robert Giffard in 1209 "when his heirs were daughters married to Robert Mauduit, Robert de Mandeville and William Comin", but does not cite the corresponding primary source[449]. The information is confirmed by the sources cited under her husband. The information is confirmed by the sources cited under her husband (follow the hyperlink). m (before 1209) ROBERT de Mandeville, son of --- (-after 1232).

ii) --- Giffard . Domesday Descendants notes the death of Robert Giffard in 1209 "when his heirs were daughters married to Robert Mauduit, Robert de Mandeville and William Comin", but does not cite the corresponding primary source[450]. The information is confirmed by the sources cited under her husband (follow the hyperlink). m (before 1209) ROBERT Mauduit, son of --- (-[1232/42]).

iii) SARAH (-before 1210). "Willelmus Cumin" paid a fine for the marriage of "juniore filia Rob fil Hug" and part of her inheritance in Northamptonshire, dated 1200[451]. Domesday Descendants notes the death of Robert Giffard in 1209 "when his heirs were daughters married to Robert Mauduit, Robert de Mandeville and William Comin", but does not cite the corresponding primary source[452]. The information is confirmed by the sources cited under her husband (follow the hyperlink). m ([1200]) as his first wife, WILLIAM Comyn, son of RICHARD Comyn & his wife Hextilda of Tynedale (-1233 or after 12 Feb 1236).

iv) [--- Giffard . Round indicates that the following document confirms her parentage, as a fourth daughter of Robert Giffard of Fonthill, and marriage (naming her husband “Robert de Fontibus...[who] is not heard of again”)[453]: the Testa de Nevill records [1242/43] "Johannes de Cantilupo heres Roberti Maudut" and “heres Willelmi de Fontibus” holding “feudum unius militis in Funtel de Galfrido de Mandevil” in Wiltshire[454]. An order dated 1220 records that, whereas “Andrew Giffard, who held the Barony of Fontil by hereditary right, was dead and had resigned the Barony temp. King John...to Robert de Mandeville, Robert Mauduit, William Cumin and William de Fontibus, as right heirs of the Barony”, the “vavassoria” were now delivered to “Robert de Mandeville and the other heirs above named”, Round discussing “vavassoria”[455]. Presumably “William de Fontibus” was the son of Robert (whose death before [1209/10], leaving William a minor as his heir, could explain the absence of any “Fontibus” reference in the records quoted above dated between 1209 and 1212), and that William died before [1242/43] leaving heirs who were minors. m ROBERT “de Fontibus”, son of ---.]

Here he’s Scottish in TCP.

https://cybergata.com/roots/9934.htm

William de Ross married Jean, daughter of William Comyn, afterwards Justiciary of Scotland in the right of his second wife, Earl of Buchan, by his first wife, Sarah, younger daughter and coheir of Robert Fitz Hugh.

~Cokayne's Complete Peerage, 2nd Edition, Vol. XI, p. 143

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