Herbert (Herzl) Bloom - Parents?

On Nov. 26, 2009 Jacob Jehudah Rosenberg, Toba Fine, Isaac Rosenberg, David Rosenberg, Hirsh Rosenberg, Shimon Rosenberg, Mayer Rosenberg, Zorach Rosenberg, and Max Rosenberg Bloom were each imported to the tree by Ryan Shell
This accounts for Jacob and Toba and all 7 of their children mentioned in Toba's obits.
So they were all on Geni by Nov. 26, 2009.

On Dec 16, 2012 Dinah Berch added Isaac Rosenberg to the tree, and added Jacob Yehuda Rosenberg as Isaac Rosenberg's parent, and. added Toby Rosenberg as Jacob Yehuda Rosenberg's spouse -- and added David Rosenberg, Hirsh Rosenberg, Meyer Rosenberg, Zarach Rosenberg, and Max Bloom (Rosenberg) to the tree as sibling of Isaac or one of Isaac's siblings.
So this was Jacob and Toby and 6 of the 7 children mentioned on Toby's obits -- all but Shimon / Simon.
And on this date she also added Khassa Rozaitsky as Max Bloom (Rosenberg)'s sister -- this is the first time Khassa was added to Geni.

Those two versions of Jacob and Toba were merged on July 12, 2017

That David Rosenberg; Harris (Hirsh) (Rozaitsky) Rosenberg; Simon Rosenberg; Mayer (Rozaitsky) Rosenberg; ; Samuel / Zorach (Rozaitsky) Rosenberg; and Isaac Rosenberg (as they now appear) are the sons of Jacob and Toba Rosenberg is clear from Toba's obit and their relationship is confirmed in other obits and documents.
It is also clear from Toba's obit and that of some of her sons that there was a son Max living in Chicago. Max (Mordechai) (Blum or Rosenberg) Bloom (as he now appears) is a Max who was living in Chicago at the right time, and his father's name on Max's Gravestone is right for Jacob. So there is at least circumstantial evidence that Max Bloom is their son.
For Khassa Rozaitsky, there is a Death Record from Cekiske in Kaunas, the Details of which are in JewishGen and, a photo of the original in FamilySearch,.

It was not until November 3, 2019 that Herbert (MSB) Bloom was added to Geni.
I have been working on the descendants of Jacob and Toba Rosenberg for the past couple of months.
I have not been able to find any evidence for Herbert Bloom being a child of Jacob and Toba Rosenberg.

Sara Lynne Leslie - you are Jacob Rosenberg's third great granddaughter thru his son Mayer and you also added versions of Jacob, Toba, and Mayer to Geni in 2009, even before Ryan did.

Dinah Ronit Berch - you are Jacob Rosenberg's third great granddaughter thru his son Isaac and created those profiles for Jacob, Toba, and children in 2012

Mark Douglas (Yechezkel Shmuel) Rose - you are the husband of Jacob Rosenberg's third great granddaughter thru his son Simon and you also imported versions of them - on Apr. 26, 2019 - which have since been merged in

Private User - you did that importing back in Nov. 2009

Do any of you know of any evidence that Herbert Bloom is a child of Jacob and/or Toba Rosenberg? Is it something you believe to be true, or believe not to be true - and if so why? Or no info, no idea?

Looking a bit more-
Herbert (MSB) Bloom was added as Herbert Bloom as Bertha Bloom's husband on Nov. 3, 2019 - then Bertha was deleted, then Rose was added as Herbert's wife
On Dec. 2, 2019 - Frances was added as Herbert's spouse, then Frances was deleted - plus other actions including
Toba Chaye (Fine) Bloom was added as Herbert Bloom's parent and
Jacob Yeshuda Roseberg Rozaitsky was added as Toba Chaye (Fine) Bloom's spouse

Then May 2, 2020
Herbert Bloom was merged into Herbert Bloom
I see Geni reporting this in View Merge as
"Merged May 2, 2020 at 6:11 AM by Mitchell Siegel" name not a link, while on the Revisions Tab the person doing the merge is a link, currently seen as "Bloom"
All the above actions were done by the same person, apparently then known as "Mitchell Siegel" --
The two versions of Herbert Bloom that were merged by Mitchell on May 2, 2020 were both added by Mitchell and had only been modified by Mitchell up to then -- the one created Nov. 3, 2019 with parents "Jacob Yeshuda Rosenberg Rozaitsky and Toba Chaye (Fine) Bloom", spouse Rose, and children David, Mary, and Sarah, merged with
one created 12/2/2019 with spouse Rose and child Lily

At the end of this Merge on May 2, 2020 this Herbert Bloom had no siblings or half-siblings
But then one minute later Mitchell merged Herbert's mother into "Toba Chaye (Fine) Rosenberg". the version created by Ryan and which by then had been merged with the versions created by Sara, Mark, and Dinah.

So it seems "Mitchell Siegel" as he chose to be known then, recently seen as "M S". currently seen as "Bloom" - ie Private User - is the person solely responsible for the attachment of Herbert Bloom as child of Jacob and Toba (Fine) Rosenberg.

Private User - You worked on the Jacob and Toba (Fine) Rosenberg family; did you ever try to find evidence for Herbert Bloom being the son of Jacob and Toba (Fine) Rosenberg?

Yes, and I failed to find any.

I did find a family in Lithuania that is a close match to this family (but which was apparently recorded under the maiden name of Herzl's wife at the time, Potashchik), which indicated that Herzl's father was named Mordechai/Mordkhel[/Markel?]. I have begun to document this family here: Hertz 'Herbert' Bloom

The positive identification of this family is complicated by the fact that Mere 'Mary' Siegel (whom I believe = Mary Bloom Siegel)'s husband Yaakov Bentzion/Jankel Bentsel, later Jacob Siegel was also recorded under a different surname (Libes/Liebes) in Lithuania than the one that appears in US records (where he becomes Yaakov Bentzion/Jankel Bentsel, later Jacob Siegel . This surname (Liebes) does, however, appear on the death certificate of Jacob's father Arye Abba Siegel Abraham Jacob Siegel (whom I believe = Abel (Arye Abba) Siegel ), as Arye Abba Siegel's mother's maiden name. An indexed version of the death certificate can be viewed for free at FamilySearch: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WP2-PJR

The family structure for several generations otherwise matches well.

So, in sum, I believe that Herbert Bloom was not the son of Jacob Rosenberg, but rather of someone named Mordechai/Mordkhel.

...And hi, Steven Albert! I had meant to get in touch sooner to present this hypothesis, but family obligations and a couple of computer crashes that closed my myriad "working" tabs prevented me from doing so. I believe that your grandmother Sarah Bloom is the same person as Sarah Tserna Cohen , who appeared in an 1898 family list in VIlijampole. I believe that she sailed to the US in 1899 aboard the ship Maasdam under the name Sarah Blum, with passage paid by her brother, and heading to her cousin L. Kaplan in Boston. I had some additional census records to share with you, but it will take me a while to retrace my steps!

I realize that my hypothesis presents a new surname problem, but it is one that at least has clues to how it happened and has support from extensive records in both the US and Lithuania. The surname "Potastik" (= Potashchik) appears in the social security application of Lilly (MSB) Drosd , your grandmother's sister. I believe that Lilly is the same as Lillian Libe Drosd , who arrived in the US as Liebe Blum. It is possible that Rokhe 'Rose' Feige Potashchik / Bloom = Rokhe 'Rose' Feige Potashchik / Bloom and that the family in the 1898 family list was for some unknown reason recorded under her maiden name. Alternatively, it is possible that the name actually belonged to Herbert's mother or something. But in any case, this is a very uncommon surname that shows up in the Lithuanian records and also in a US record for a known member of this Bloom family.

(I should have said that Lilly Bloom Drosd was your grandmother's half-sister, which is more likely based on the age gap and indications that Sarah Bloom Cohen's mother was Bessie/Basha Kaplan.)

Hi Lisa - thanks for the followup! I'd love to see what you have when you have time. I am familiar with the Potastik name since I too came across that as one of Herb's spouse's so it was clear that my grandmother and Lilly were half siblings. On the Kaplan front I came across another clue - my mom had written a recollection of some cousins she knew. Her mother had lived with them when she came over, but sadly she didn't remember the last name. However, for the cousin she did remember I found a mother's name on a marriage certificate and it was Mary Kaplan (as I recall, notes aren't in front of me). Since Sarah listed her mother as Bessie Kaplan, I assume they were cousins on her mother's side rather than the Bloom side, but I haven't gotten any traction there.

Private User, thanks for this info. that makes so much more sense,

I have now uploaded copies of the actual Death Records for both Jacob's Father and his wife Rokha Leya / Rachel Leah Siegel who is probably Jacob's mother -- and both seem to have the mother Sarah Liebes. Does it look that way to others as well? Thoughts?

Also uploaded a copy of the marriage record for Jacob's brother Philip - which gives Philip's mother as Lillie Pearlman - so probably Rachel Leah Pearlman.

And have come across this article which explains why the families may have been listed under the mother's birth surname instead of the father's surname - and that it was a common occurrence:
https://bloodandfrogs.com/2011/01/religious-marriages-civil-marriag...

The most likely explanation is that Philip Siegel (the informant for his father's death record) misremembered his maternal grandmother's maiden name. Rochel Siegel (i.e. Rachel Leah Pearlman Siegel) is listed on Arye Abba's death certificate as the one who paid the undertaker for services, so she most likely supplied the names on the certificate.

See my post from 12/31/2021 for more information and links to profiles of families in Lithuania that seem to correspond to the US families we're discussing. I haven't yet merged them because of the mismatch in surnames; however, I believe the individuals to be identical.

(...Errr...Philip was the informant for his mother's death record, not his father's.)