Freida (Kamm) Bloom - ONE PERSON OR TWO?

Please don't change on my family tree. You screwed up again. leave alone.

Private User - is the change Lisa mentioned the one you are objecting to?
Or what change is it you are objecting to?

Freida (kamm) Bloom I did not change this Freida Kamm Bloom tree. Who did change or additional this?

Last time, I am related to Freida Kamm Bloom in Blue

Jess Lacher and Leslie are Sicko over Freida Bloom and Rose Potastik (Bloom) This is conflicting to me. SICKO

Mitchell - on Geni any changes are on all of out trees - that is why we are having these dicussions. If you change something without proof it changes it for all of us.

Freida Bloom

Why did I relate to Freida Kamm Bloom in RED?

Why did Lois bring up on 10/25? YOU PUSHED ME FOR SIEGEL LINEAGE AND FREIDA KAMM BLOOM JOKE. I HAVE GEDMATCH WITH OTHER COUSIN.

GOOD BYE

Hi,
I am Carole Kapp. My great grandmother was Leah Kamm. Leah's sister was Frieda Kamm. I know Fieda's husband was Emil Kamm. Sorry I can't tell you if there is relation between Frieda and Blooms. But I don't think there was. Never came across a Bloom in tree. Tend to think Frieda Kamm Bloom was a different person.

Thanks, Carole Kapp .

I agree that based on the preponderance of evidence, Frieda Kamm Bloom, wife of Herzl Bloom, was different from your great-great-aunt Frieda Kamm, wife of Emil.

I put a request in to Curators Please Assist -
https://www.geni.com/discussions/216411?msg=1517954

Well, a Curator did an unmerge in the wee hours today.

Carole Kapp
Now you are sole manager of Freida Bloom - who is the wife of Emil, but not of Herbert.
So far so good, but lots more work to do. Plus, I suspect, a bug that may have to be addressed at some point.
But for now, some questions
1) Were Rafael Kamm and Fagel (Tand) Kamm the parents of Emil?
2) Did Emil have a sister Frieda?
3) For Emil, I see he is
Father of Richard Kamm; Adolph Kamm; Sarah Kamm; Jenny Kamm; Sarah (Kamm) Bergsman; <private> (Kamm) kamm; Paul Kamm and <private> Kamm -- do you see first names for all of them, and are you able to access all of them, or??

No Rafael and Faega were not parents of Emil. I don' know if Emil had a sister Frieda. Yes, Emil is father of Richard, Adolph, Sarah, Jenny, Paul. Another brother was Sam. And other brother was Sol.

Yes, I noticed that bug that has Frieda married to herself...

I heard from Carole via private message.

She said that Frieda did *not* have a brother (and Raphael Kamm and Feige Tand did not have a son) Emil. So I think we can detach him from those parents.

Elsewhere (e.g. trees on Ancestry) I have seen unsourced references to Emil's parents "Shimon" and "Raisel". However, Emil's death record ( https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q237-CFJ4 ) does not mention his parents' names and I have not yet found a photo of his gravestone. I was also unable to locate an obituary for Emil, just a one-line death notice in the Chicago Tribune.

Currently, Chaje Leah Kamm is the Profile for Carole's grandmother Leah.
She is buried in Waldheim Cemetery in Forest Park, IL
Her gravestone shows her Father's name in Hebrew as [Rafael]

Carole Kapp
- is that the correct person for your grandmother?

Was she the Wife of Wolf Kamm ?
Was she the Mother of Margaret Kamm; Ida Kamm; Ana (Kamm) Menaker; Harry Kamm; Dora Kamm; Rosa Kamm and Jenny (Kamm) Kretchmar ?

Corrections - I should have said great grandmother

Private User

Your post came in while I was composing my message below it. Just seeing it.
I think we want to get a lot more documented before we disconnect.

Carole and/or Lisa -
A problem I am having - the Death Record for Freida Bloom gives her father as Max.
Is this yet another Frieda Kamm, or is it definitely the Frieda Kamm who is the sister of Carole's great grandmother?

Carole

I am thinking you accidentally put 1890 in the death year instead of the birth year of Sarah Kamm = Sarah Bergsman -- and that she and Sarah (Kamm) Bergsman = Sarah Bergsman
should be merged -- yes, or??

Also, will you please make Sam Kamm = <private> Kamm public?
Also please make whoever <private> (Kamm) kamm is public as well.

w

Paid more attention, Carole said " Yes, Emil is father of Richard, Adolph, Sarah, Jenny, Paul. Another brother was Sam. And other brother was Sol."
Had searched on Sam Kamm before.
Now did a search o Sol Kamm - got Sam Kamm which I see as <private> (Kamm) kamm,

So yes, merge the two Sarahs, then once bug is fixed, assign those children to the correct parents.

Re: Frieda's death record, I suspect but can't prove that "Max" for her father is simply an error. The death record clearly belongs to her, given other info (including husband "Emiel"). It would be helpful if we could get a photo of her gravestone as well as Emil's. I believe that Emil's Hebrew name was Eli, based on Paul's gravestone, but more useful would be Emil's father's name.

I know you asked Carole Kapp , but yesterday I did a little research on Chaje Leah Kamm and Wolf Kamm .

I have added photos of their gravestones (from FindAGrave, with permission of the photographer), which makes it clear that they were buried together. I have also posted indexed versions of their death records. Chaje Leah's father is (per her gravestone) Rafael, and Wolf's father is Avraham.

I also posted the indexed death record for Jenny Kretchmar showing that her father was Wolf and her mother was Chanah (probably should be Chaje): https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QV9N-RJ6R Jennie's naturalization record (not yet added) says that she was born in Lemberg, Galicia (Lviv, Ukraine).

Ana Menaker 's gravestone doesn't give her Hebrew name, but her death record shows that her father was Wolf: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVRN-HRY7 Anna's obit in the CHicago Tribune mentions siblings Dora Kamm, Margaret Weidmann, Jennie Kretchmar, and Harry Kamm.

I don't have any info on Rosa or Ida Kamm. Perhaps Carole can share more.

A bit behind you. You are talking about Carole's great grandmother Leah, which you now have being called Chaje (any chance you are willing to move the "Leah" over into the First Name field, so those of us who have our preferences set to not include Middle Names will still see Leah, since it was frequently used?)
She shows Wife of Wolf Kamm and
Mother of Margaret Kamm; Ida Kamm; Ana (Kamm) Menaker; Harry Kamm; Dora Kamm; Rosa Kamm and Jenny (Kamm) Kretchmar
- The folks you are detailing are Chaje Leah's spouse and children.
Very nice to have so many of those nailed down.

I found Emil and Frieda Kamm's passenger manifest. They arrived in New York on 9 April 1903 aboard the ship Anchoria. Emil is written "Emili" but is male. The children's names and ages are Gesila [=Jenny?] (17), Sarah (13), Sruel [=Paul?] (10), and Avram [=Adolph?] (6). They're going to Emil and Frieda's son / the children's brother Richard Kamm in Youngstown, Ohio. Richard applied for naturalization there: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89MR-4PPS?i=211&am...

(I will wait to upload these documents until the merge/unmerge for Emil and Frieda Kamm has been cleaned up.)

Based on Jennie Kamm Kretchmar's naturalization record, I also found her passenger manifest. She sailed (as Genita or Genila) with her mother Lea Kam (aka Chaje Leah Kamm ) and her sister Margaretha. They arrived in New York 11 August 1903 aboard the ship Rijndam. They were going to husband/father W. Kam in Youngstown, Ohio.

In looking up Kamms in Youngstown, I found the marriage record for Sally Ghinas , daughter of Raffaell Kamm and Fanny (no surname given) to Adolph Ghinas: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-S533-LF?i=183&amp;...

Carole, do you know if family members stayed in Youngstown long or if it was mostly a short stopover before they moved to Chicago?

Thought I mentioned this already, but don't see the post I thought I wrote: per Lois's suggestion, I moved "Leah" to the first name field for Chaje Leah Kamm That's the name she seems to have gone by most often, and it's part of a Hebrew double-name. Her family put "Chaje Leah" on her gravestone in both English and Hebrew.

Incidentally, do we know whether Richard Kamm is another child of Chaje Leah Kamm and Wolf Kamm ? His Jewish name is Refoel son of Wolf, and I wonder if he's named for Leah's father Rafael. He lived in Chicago before moving to Los Angeles. Another Richard Kamm (perhaps the son of Frieda and Emil?) was a witness to his naturalization petition...

Thanks, Lisa, for that name change!!

I do not know about Richard, maybe Carole does.

Do we know that Arpad Bergsmann (Arpad Bergsmann) is the same as "Fred Bergsman" (Sarah's husband)?

Lisa,
Yes, my great grandmother was Chaje Leah Kamm. Yes, her husband was Wolf. Yes, she was mother of Margaret(my grandmother), Ida, Ana, Harry, Dora, Rose, and Jenny.

Lisa,
I don't have any official records of Rose or Ida. But they were definitely Wolf and Leah's daughters. We moved to California in the 40's and I remember visiting Ida. She had a daughter Sylvia and a grandson named Jeffrey. I was very young and don't remember details. We lived in LA .I was told by a a daughter of Emil and Frieda that Rosa had mental disabilities and never found marriage or any other records for her. I do have a 50th wedding anniversary picture of Wolf and Leah. Both Ida and Rosa are in the picture.

Richard Kamm is not son of Chaje Leah and Wolf. There are several Richard's in family. Daughter Dora married 1st cousin Richard Kamm. They use to come visit us in LA . Yes, Richard Kamm ,Dora's husband was the son of Emil and Frieda. My brother would visit him when he moved to LA. He has a granddaughter living in Marina Del Rey.

Richard Kamm , aka "Refoel bar Wolf", was married to Ida Rotenberg, and he's a different Richard from Richard Kamm son of Emil and Frieda, who married Dora. I'd be kind of surprised if Richard son of Wolf weren't somehow part of this extended family.

There's also a Raphael Richard Kamm who's the son of Abraham Jacob Kamm .. There are 4 duplicate profiles for each of those Raphael Richards and Abraham Jacobs (some with the surname Tand), which probably should be merged. ( Rudi Moshe Weinberg , are you still an active Geni user?) I assume that they represent the same person as Abraham Jacob Kamm (son of Rafael Kamm and Feige Tand), in which case they should be merged into this family as well.

So that's 3 different Richards already!

It looks like Richard Kamm is a duplicate profile for Richard Kamm .

I don't know if it would be better to merge them now or (probably) to wait until the Emil/Frieda issue has been sorted out. Private User , do we know if there are any curators working on that? I didn't see any response to your post in the curators discussion thread.