Hokolesqua, Sachem Cornstalk - Extra family

Perhaps use this profile

Chief Cornstalk's wife / wives

For certain children, uncertain mother.

His family from

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Shawnee-45

Wives and Children

There is no reliable source for the name of a wife or wives.

Hokolesqua had at least two sons, Cutemwha (The Wolf) and Elinipsico who died with his father at Point Pleasant. [3] [8]

Wissecapoway, aka Captain Morgan, was a Shawnee held captive by Lord Dunmore during 1775 in Williamsburg, VA. He is also said to be a son of Cornstalk, the Shawnee Chief. [9] Dunmore later released him. Nothing more is known about him.

A unnamed daughter was mentioned in the pension application of a Henry Aleshite who stated he was at Point Pleasant when Cornstalk and a white man who was married to Cornstalk's daughter were murdered. Her name is not given, nor is the name of the 'white man.' [10]

Peter Cornstalk (Wynepeuchsika), a noted Shawnee chief, was apparently not Cornstalk's son, as is sometimes written.[11]

—-

Source: Sugden, John. Cornstalk, in American National Biography, Oxford University Press,1999. https://www.anb.org/view/10.1093/anb/9780198606697.001.0001/anb-978...

I'm still trying to sort out his father, actually. Do you want a different thread on that, or should I ask here?

It can all be the same. Can you get access to the Sugden article? I think that’s our “go to.”

Disconnected wife Julia Ailstock, {Shawnee Heritage} and children Sunfish Ionoca, Cornstalk; Elijah Keigh Tugh Quah Cornstalk; Abraham (Cornstalk) Ailstock; Absalom Ailstock and Michael Ailstock (Cornstalk) Ailstock

I'll have to figure out which of my library accounts, if any, has access to ANB. If not, I'll ask a colleague. :)

So...I'm still confused about the "Cornstalk's father is White Fish" thing. From what I can gather, somebody said Cornstalk gave a speech in which he said his father was White Fish.

Wikitree says the source for the speech's existence is a Vine Deloria-edited compilation -- and lord knows I'm loathe to question either Sr. or Jr. But then a note below it says that John Sugden questions the veracity of the speech. But...it's Vine Deloria as editor, and John Sugden is...okay, I guess (isn't he really a naval historian?), but it's Vine Deloria, so...

Meanwhile, I'm reading a journal article that says his father was Paxinosa / Backsinosa / Pashshanos / Bucksenutha / Puckshenoses / Paxenoos / Paxnous. But the article, from the journal Ethnohistory, is from 1955, and the sources for the relationship are mostly from Moravian records, about which other recent journals seem to have been wary. So I don't particularly know what to make of this info and whether it's reliable.

And I keep coming back to: Vine Deloria. If he signed off on something, I'm gonna trust him unless I know why Sugden has a problem with it. (I'd also really like to know who wrote that chapter!) But I don't know Wikitree well enough to know how to track down whoever raised the objection and ask them to share what it is.

This isn't "Young Peter," Sachem Cornstalk, right? I can't find a Peter Cornstalk who married an Adams.

Local tradition [in northern Arkansas] preserves the memory of Peter Cornstalk, who married a daughter of the Adams family. Tradition remembers that he was Cherokee and that his village, 'Sequatchie,' was on the Buffalo River, but James J. Johnston has suggested that the tradition is in error on both counts. He argues on the basis of location and the absence of a Peter Cornstalk in the Cherokee records, that the Cornstalk family was Shawnee and that their town was located in present-day Searcy County 'on Bear Creek near the Canaan settlement,' the one reported by government surveyors in 1829. The Adams family traditions include a few ethnographic notes centered on Peter Cornstalk's village on Bear Creek."

• Lankford, George E. "Shawnee Convergence: Immigrant Indians in the Ozarks." The Arkansas Historical Quarterly 58, no. 4 (1999): 390-413. Accessed 10 August 2021. doi:10.2307/40025509.

Of note: This article cites exactly who provided this particular oral history, who recorded it, where, and when. And it explains, in detail, why the oral history has probable errors.

I took White Fish to be an alternate name, which doesn’t rule out anyone else. Fun, isn’t it?

Paxinosa is father or grandfather.

Moravian Journals are considered top notch. So is Sugden.

I’d cross reference with parents of his siblings.

I think there must have been several “Peter Cornstalks.”

This one is Kansas:

"Young Peter," Sachem Cornstalk

So how do we want to handle the display of parents, in that case? Cut and keep their profiles as is (assuming we know they're correct *aside* from him being their son)? And then add new "Unknown parent of Cornstalk" profiles that present each theory and link to the preserved profiles)?

For Petella “Old Yie” Cornstalk, an alleged adoptive son of Cornstalk, we should just cut him away and mark as fictional. The only sources for his existence are 1) the debunked Greene genealogy, 2) an uncited NRA magazine article (!), and 3) a 2004 novel (!!!).

Since you're the curator, I won't do it without your consent, but I'm confident that's what we should do. And he has no descendants listed, so it's not going to require buy-in from a lot of people first. Simple fix.

Cannot find evidence Catherine Vanderpool actually married her Shawnee captor, Hokolesqua, Sachem Cornstalk

Oh, and Petella also appears in a fictional short story from an 1850 literary magazine. I bet that's where Don Greene found it, didn't realize it was fiction, and turned it into "fact." And now it's in a bunch of family trees on-line. *facepalm*

Oceana Cornstalk also appears fictional. There is an old joke about how the town of Oceana, West Virginia was named:

According to the Mayor of Oceana, Nola Rose.... the daughter of Cornstalk, a famous Shawnee tribal chieftain, was lost, and someone looking for her said " O see Ann" and that's how Oceana was named.

(Man, that's a lousy joke!)

Her first appearance is in Greene's book, with no citations.

Compelling comments at https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Carlisle-76 detailing why Esther Sowards is likely not a daughter of Cornstalk. Do descendants have any sources suggesting otherwise?

Sources would be needed to prove the set of parents Wikitree claims is accurate.

A little bit more and they’ll all be disconnected. Can you add the suffix {Shawnee Heritage} if that’s the source? I just did that for a bunch of Cornstalks siblings - who should also be disconnected, with that documented on this discussion. But I haven’t looked into the mother yet.

Meskwa-katee "Red Skirt" "Katee” Mekoche

My old note has

Daughter of Meshiskootashika, principal chief of the Mekoche. Married Okowellos (1678-1754), chief Corn Stalk

So not sure if Okowellos is yet another name for White Fish. But my instinct is we should separate them, and just have the known siblings together.

Disconnected Helizikinopo as wife of Cornstalk with children Catherine Cornstalk; Walker Pomethea "Robert" Cornstalk; Chenusaw T. J., Cornstalk; Elizabeth Cornstalk; Aracoma "Sky" (Cornstalk) Baker; "Young Peter," Sachem Cornstalk; Esther "Cutewah" (Cornstalk) Sowards; Kaweeshee "Greenbrier" Cornstalk; Kisekwi-Waskwi “Blue Sky” Cornstalk and Petella “Old Yie” Cornstalk « less

I think we had found records on controversial Esther.

Let’s keep the Shawnee Heritage people together. So for example - Meskwa-katee "Red Skirt" "Katee” Mekoche looks to be a real person. She’s in Shawnee Heritage. We’re not sure of her children from any source (so far). So separate out her Shawnee Heritage children from Cornstalk & his siblings.

I wouldn’t make placeholder parents for them unless it’s easier technically, because we may yet solve it. (I can dream.)

Disconnected N.N., {Shawnee Heritage} as husband of Meskwa-katee "Red Skirt" "Katee” Mekoche with children Ca wa chi le (Cornstalk) Shoptaugh, {Shawnee Heritage}; Sawelaha Eliza Cornstalk, {Shawnee Heritage} and Mis ka pela thee “Red Hawk” Cornstalk, {Shawnee Heritage}

Here’s the real Paxinosa.

Chief Paxinosa

American National Biography (2002) by Oxford University Press, lists in Cornstalk’s entry, Hokoleskwa, as meaning "a blade of corn". Original names are rendered in white settlers' records as Colesqua, Keightughque, and Semachquaan. A1764 document identifies him with Tawnamebuck, a Shawnee who attended the Lancaster Treaty proceedings in Pennsylvania in 1748, but probably is in error. In a speech of 1775, Cornstalk seems to describe himself as the son of White Fish, but Matthew Arbuckle, who knew them both, implies otherwise in a letter of December 1776. Moravian missionary records indicate that he was the son or grandson of noted headman Paxinosa, and circumstances suggest this to be true.

http://shawnee-bluejacket.com/chiefs.html

However, the descent from Paxinosa seems to go nowhere.

He was present with chiefs of other tribes at Ft Johnson, N. Y., Apr. 15-19, 1757, in conference with Sir William Johnson regarding lines of travel and trade 3, and also at the conference with Gov. Denny at Easton, Pennsylvania, in August of the same year 4. Paxinos removed with his family to Ohio in 1755 or 1758, where his tribesmen joined in the war against the English. It is probable that he died shortly after this time. He left two sons, Kolapeka and Teatapercaum, the latter a chief of some note in the war of 1764 5.

—-

And he doesn’t seem old enough to have been grandfather.

See https://media.geni.com/p13/d7/b9/19/9a/53444848ab94fa4d/paxinosa_original.jpg?hash=b7e4830ede4673fc3fcea2c7cd510ec018361b6e3ec77e2197c9a6ca5a740b25.1763625599

Indians in Pennsylvania By Paula W. Wallace Page 180

If this is correct, his son could have been White Fish, father of Nonhelema, Silverheels, Cornstalk and Nimwha.

I pretty much hate it. The dates do not work.

I am reluctant to add "{Shawnee Heritage}" to profiles because I think the average person is going to read that as "This person is of Shawnee heritage" as opposed to "This person's facts and existence are disputed because they originate in a widely-criticized genealogy called 'Shawnee Heritage'."

You're moving far faster than I am. I've so far only cut Oceana. From what I can trace, the main proponent of her existence is Don Greene. Carlyle Hinshaw's website says that Noel Schutz, Greene's collaborator, has also weighed in:

"Schutz notes that Cornstalk’s ‘siblings were Nonhelema ( "grenadier Squaw"; Catherine), Silverheels, and Nimwha. Some say his father was Paxinosa, ‘Hard Striker’ (not the father of Tecumseh as some think in error, but a well-known Pennsylvania Shawnee chief). Some of his children that have been mentioned are Oceano, Elinipso (Elinipisco, Elinispisco Nipseko), Aracroma (The Aracroma legend, married Boiling Baker), Greenbrier (name from the Greenbrier area of the Kanawha River?), Bluesky, Wynepuechiska (Peter), Wissecapoway, Piaserka (The Wolf). Other names mentioned are Mary, Elizabeth, Esther, Peter, Nern-Pe-Nes-Quah. Keigh-taugh-quah. Elizabeth See was a white captive Cornstalk married prior to her repatriation. Cornstalk is said to have been born in western Pennsylvania at least by 1720, but some say 1708 or 1710, and moved with his family when he was about 10 to Ohio."

(Apologies again for the ethnic slur, which is in the original.)

This is another case where it reads as someone hedging -- it says she's been "mentioned," not that she's been traced or confirmed. Hinshaw neither endorses nor disproves the list, at least not on that page. My guess is that this is where we got the large list of children from.

Also, if the date on Hinshaw's website is correct, then I believe Schutz's writing above predates the publication of Shawnee Heritage -- but it also means her existence still ultimately ties back to the writers of that book.

There is another proposed descendant of Oceana who keeps getting mentioned in scattered places, a Charles R. Stackpole. (He's also mentioned on her Geni profile.) The problem is that I can't figure out why he's being quoted. He has posted occasionally on genealogy message boards during the past decade, but other Shawnee genealogists have questioned his conclusions. As far as I can tell, he's a well-intentioned but perhaps not reliable correspondent? It would be nice if we could figure out where he got his info.

Of note: Stackpole says Oceana married and had children. Other Shawnee researchers have called that into question; here is one example. Greene lists her as "died unmarried" at age 18, which is very different from Stackpole's assertion that she died at 101. And again, no sources given by either.

With this many questions, I'm comfortable cutting her from her parents on Geni unless/until someone can firm up her info and relationships. We can always re-connect her if something develops.

To add to that:

Carlyle Hinshaw does not list Oceana/Oceano in his genealogy. That page I linked, where he quotes Schutz, is the only mention of her anywhere on the Bluejacket website. So Hinshaw doesn't appear to be endorsing this theory of her existence.

Dorene Private User, you have a mention on your website of correspondence with Mr. Stackpole. It looks like he sent one of your genealogy collaborators a personal document he wrote, saying that he's a descendant of Oceana/Oceano. Do you happen to know if the full document contains any sources? I've looked at Stackpole's TribalPages website, and her page doesn't contain any. He also has significantly conflicting dates and places he's given on various websites -- I've so far found three different ages at death he's given, for example, and birth years that range decades apart -- and none of them really work to match her to the family he says she married into. (Of note, he also seems to acknowledge that he can't find anything about her, either.) I'm thinking he's someone who means well but unfortunately got some things very confused.

I want this story to be true! But it truly looks like she's unlikely to be a child of Cornstalk. If we ever firm up a verifiable story of Oceana, I'm happy to re-connect her.

Using {Shawnee Heritage} in the suffix is consistent with the way we use { } In the Medieval tree for persons of legend in an isolated tree. They are isolated and marked fictional with a link back in the “about” to the historic person they are associated with.

So my thought is denuding the Cornstalk tree of all but the 4 children historically validated by Sudgen and attached to “unknown wife / wives.”

I understand Cornstalk likely had many wives and children, but it seems that at this point in our knowledge, there is not a way to link them.

We’ll have to go through the extra wives and separate out truly fictional.

Here’s a reference to Nonhelema’s mother & father, Katee & Okowellos

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonhelema

Nonhelema monument

Nonhelema Hokolesqua[1] (c. 1718–1786) Born in 1718 into the Chalakatha (Chilliothe) division of the Shawnee nation and spent her early youth in Pennsylvania. Her brother Cornstalk, and her metis mother Katee accompanied her father Okowellos to the Alabama country in 1725. Their family returned to Pennsylvania within five years. In 1734 she married her first husband, a Chalakatha chief. By 1750 Nonhelema was a Shawnee chief[1] during the 18th century and the sister of Cornstalk, with whom she migrated to Ohio and founded neighboring villages.

Oh boy.

If you follow the citations there, her name and her parentage are attributed to:

• McEuen, Melissa A. Kentucky Women: Their Lives and Times." Athens, Georgia: The University of Georgia Press, 2015. pp. 12-13. ISBN 978-0-8203-4453-9.

...which is actually misleading, because while McEuen was co-editor of that volume, the writer of the Nonhelema piece was Craig Thompson Friend.
His article can be accessed via Google Books.

And guess who his sole source was for Nonhelema's family tree?

Don Greene.

Well, she has other citations. Keep citing. :)

How does this look?

Family

Possibly …

Okawela Paxinosa Okawela Cornstalk
was perhaps the son of Chief Paxinosa and [[Elizabeth Wife of Paxinosa Elizabeth Wife of Paxinosa] Elizabeth] (her Christian name)
Seen as husband of Daughter of Sassoonan, {Shawnee Heritage} mother of daughter Nonhelema was called [[Meskwa-katee "Red Skirt" "Katee” Mekoche Meskwa-katee "Red Skirt" "Katee” Mekoche] Katee]
[[Nonhelema "The Grenadier Squaw" Cornstalk Nonhelema "The Grenadier Squaw" Cornstalk] Nonhelema] was the sister of
Cornstalk. [[Hokolesqua, Sachem Cornstalk Hokolesqua, Sachem Cornstalk] Cornstalk] was the brother of
[[Halowas “Silverheels” Cornstalk Halowas “Silverheels” Cornstalk] Silver Heels] and
[[Nimwha (or Munseeka) Cornstalk Nimwha (or Munseeka) Cornstalk] Nimwha]