Dª. Zaida (Isabella), reina consorte de León - 2020 summary

https://media.geni.com/p13/ed/fb/b8/41/5344484893332c2c/prophet_muh...

https://theconversation.com/meet-the-muslim-princess-zaida-spanish-...

@Roberto sorry, the very interesting article signed by a scholar of an authoritative university, however, contains a conflict:

Isabella of Castile, Duchess consort of York descends from Alfonso VI the Brave, King of Castile and León & Constance de Bourgogne, Queen consort of Castile and Leon (Not from Zaida alias Isabel)

--> https://www.geni.com/path/Alfonso-VI-the-Brave-King-of-Castile-and-...

and there seems to be no documentary doubt about the parents of Urraca I, reina de Castilla y León.

maybe after the death of her mother in 1093, Zaida aka Isabel kept her under her maternal benevolence.. yes yes nothing to object

_____________________
let us return to the subject of the discussion:
with the permission and supervision of (C) Private User I have reordered / renumbered chronologically the relations of Alfonso VI the Brave, King of Castile and León (following MedLands dates)

I'm trying to paste the primary sources on the info of the children but everything is blocked everywhere:
I don't want to spam by copying and pasting everything here: just follow the linck -http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/CASTILE.htm#AlfonsoVIdied1109B
-------------

anyway look at where they document Sancho Alfónsez, Infante de Castilla y León they have very clear ideas:
-http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/CASTILE.htm#_ftnref556
King Alfonso VI & his fifth wife had three children (born before the marriage of their parents):

2. Infante don SANCHO de Castilla y León (Sep 1093[556]-killed in battle Uclés 29 May 1108). The Chronicon Regum Legionensium names "Zaida, the daughter of King Abenabeth of Seville, who was baptised…Elisabeth" as the second of two concubines of King Alfonso, and their son "Sancho who died at the battle of Ucles"[557]. Legitimated by the subsequent marriage of his parents. Ruling in Medinaceli 1107[558]. ... ....

it is not my area, but if no one else can do it, at least start by undoing the INFO / ABOUT, to glue the primary sources.

*start by "unlocking" INFO / ABOUT

___________________
[Point 2] Moroccan Spain.
I have tried to keep the subject separate but I have the impression that in the general discussion it is too historical and should be forgotten so:

with the first "relationship" Zaida opens a connection on Spain Moroccan, pasting wikis and Medlands on existing profiles there are 2 duplicate MPs:

-Al-Mu'tamid ibn Abbad III, emir of Seville
-Al-Mu'tamid ibn Abbad III, emir of Seville

& Al-Rimaikiyya [ENG]
is Al-Rimaikiyya [Spanish]

I can help with some of these. The curator is less active, but he and I worked together on some of the profiles associated with al-Andalus and I read Arabic and studied this era decades ago when I was a student of Islamic history.

I would not consider Wikipedia credible, but would consider Medlands credible, unless there were more credible sources.

There is a lot of speculation and mythology around the people of this era and not so many primary sources.

how's it going? I see no change on the Moroccan lines (point 2)
I have already pasted on the profiles, the available primary sources.. but as you will have understood MedLands does not have the answers ready for everything.

Reading the various wikis of the different languages, primary resources aside, I suppose I understood what they were trying to tell here on GENI, but for the moment just consider it only an intuition:

*Abbad II (Abu Amr Abbad) al-Mutadid hajib de Sevilla
**Al-Mu'tamid ibn Abbad III, emir of Seville first hereditary brother (right name but dates and information wrong cloned by the brother who is the only one they found on ML) marry [Al-Rimaikiyya aka Al-Rimaikiyya (need merge)])
***[Dª. Zaida Isabel, reina de León aka Dª. Zaida Isabel, reina de León (need merge)]
**Al-Mu'tamid ibn Abbad III, emir of Seville second brother who inherits everything, including wife and daughter (as wife) from old brother executed on suspicion betrayal in 1069.

_____________

Regarding point 1,I repeat the beginning is to unlock the INFO of all the children of Alfonso VI the Brave, King of Castile and León and paste the primary sources.
{{The quick (C) lock key is never a good deal in the long run. }}

It's not even like that, it's much simpler:

I noticed many risky merges that led to mixing linck and INFO-about both in points 1 and 2.

Point 1. Now the children of Zaida & Isabel are correctly documented without errors and a good (C) has been alerted. If no one in the next few weeks renews their intention to keep them separate, I will ask for merge.

Point 2.
IF Al-Mu'tamid ibn Abbad III, emir of Seville
& Al-Mu'tamid ibn Abbad III, emir of Seville..
if they are not the same person, unfortunately they share data, dates, affections, links, info-about... ect. (coming from different merge, even very old).
I will move everything only on Al-Mu'tamid ibn Abbad III, emir of Seville because Al-Mu'tamid ibn Abbad III, emir of Seville even if I don't know who put he there, it is the exact name that appears in a primary sources with the name of Zaida's father.

but yet Al-Mu'tamid ibn Abbad III, emir of Seville it seems to me to coincide with the same name compiled on the Catalan wiki --> https://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muh%C3%A0mmad_ibn_Abbad_al-M%C3%BAtamid

I need a consultation :D
Sorry Erica Howton I saw you work in the connected Abenámar (Abu Bakr Muhammad ibn Ammar) Visir de Sevilla (just only 10 years ago:)

read a couple of this posts.. alongside the tree..
..BRO or duplicated in different languages? >.<

"The poet - vizier" is this man in Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_ibn_Ammar

I dont think we know much further about his family, but ill look at his patron's.

https://books.google.com/books?id=kNouBgAAQBAJ&amp;pg=PA245&amp;lpg... about Zaida might be of interest. So far it seems that there were at least 2 Isabel's and it is unclear who was the mother of which children, and that one of the Isabel's was formerly known as Zaida.

"Zaida" was not her real name; it just meant "lady "

https://books.google.com/books?id=kNouBgAAQBAJ&amp;pg=PA245&amp;lpg...

The profile for Dª. Zaida Isabel, reina de León seems quite complete and the best we know, alhough it looks like there have been studies since last updated, such as the 2016 article linked above; it does not alter the genealogy as far as I can tell.

o.O Can my itanglish be so bad!? :D
Hatte Blejer (absent until Nov 1) not even you who even read Arabic can expose yourself to say if they are brothers with the affections exchanged, or simply clones compiled in different translated languages? (example ENG & Catalan, but also a mix of French etc)

Erica Howton Try browse the available wiki languages of:
-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Mu%27tamid_ibn_Abbad
{[(POINT 2: https://www.geni.com/discussions/207686?msg=1363425 )]}

Yes, they look like dup MPs to me.

Al-Mu'tamid ibn Abbad III, emir of Seville is the same as Al-Mu'tamid ibn Abbad III, emir of Seville

Hatte Blejer (absent until Nov 1) im guessing there had been a reason for two of them at some point but the issues seem resolved and now its a matter of clearing up presentation.

Medlands says Elisabeth was the same as Isabel and was the fourth wife and that Zaida was the fifth wife.

Are you proposing collapsing Elisabeth / Isabel / Zaida.

It looks like there is no conclusive evidence for which mother had which children between Elisabeth and Zaida, except that Sancho was the son of Zaida.

I would not give any credibility to Wikipedia for this era / region personally. Rather I would look at Medlands and the Medieval SIG.

-Read carefully how they describe the 4th in [square braces]
[[[They use [square braces] for doubt, perhaps, uncertain, flexible]]]
_______________________________________________
[m fourthly ([Burgos] 1100 before 14 May) ISABEL [Elisabeth], daughter of --- (-before Mar 1106, bur Royal Pantheon of San Isidor de León). The Chronicon Regum Legionensium names "Elizabeth" as the fourth of the "five legitimate wives" of King Alfonso, stating that she was the mother of "Sancha the wife of count Rodrigo and Elvira who married Duke Roger of Sicily"[508]. According to Reilly, her first documentary mention is dated 14 May 1100, but he does not cite the reference[509]. "Adefonsus…totius Hispanie imperator" donated property to the monastery of San Salvador de Oña with the consent of "uxoris mee Helisabeth regine" by charter dated 12 Dec 1075[510], although this date is clearly incorrect. "Aldefonsus rex Yspaniarum…cum…coniuge mee Helisabeth regine" donated property to the monastery of San Salvador de Oña by charter dated 1086[511], also clearly misdated. "Adefonsus Rex Imperator Ispanie et Regina Elisabeth" protected the grazing rights of Valladolid Santa María by charter dated 1100[512]. "Adefonsus totius Ispanie imperator" donated property to the monastery of San Salvador de Oña with the consent of "uxoris mee Helisabet regine" by charter dated 23 Mar 1103[513]. Her origin is not known. Reilly assumes a French origin, speculating that she belonged to a younger branch of the house of Burgundy, but quotes no documentary evidence for this or any other French origin[514]. It used to be widely accepted that she was the daughter of Louis VI King of France, based on a funerary inscription, but this is chronologically impossible. Her existence is questionable and it is possible that she was in fact the same person as Isabel née Zaïda, shown below as King Alfonso's fifth wife. The question of the separate existence of King Alfonso VI's fourth wife would be resolved if we knew there had been two different memorials to "Queen Elisabeth" in the Royal Pantheon, but it appears that a record of these memorials no longer exists. According to Reilly, she is last named in a charter dated 14 May 1107[515], but it is more likely that this document refers to Queen Isabel/Elisabeth née Zaïda (see below).]

m fifthly (Mar 1106) as her second husband, ZAÏDA, widow of ABU NASIR al Fatah al Ma'Mun Emir of Córdoba, daughter of --- (-13 Sep 1107, bur Royal Pantheon of San Isidor at León). The Chronicon Regum Legionensium names "Zaida, the daughter of King Abenabeth of Seville, who was baptised…Elisabeth" as the second of two concubines of King Alfonso, and their son "Sancho who died at the battle of Ucles"[516]. The Chronicon de Cardeña records that King Alfonso married “Mora, que decien la Cayda, sobrina de Abenafanle” who was mother of his son Sancho[517]. Her first marriage is confirmed by the Bayan al Mugrib of Ibn Idari which names "le fils d´Alphonse, Sancho, qu´il avait eu de l´épouse d´Al Mamun ibn Abbad" when recording the battle of Uclés[518]. Salazar y Acha attempts to explain these three apparently contradictory sources by suggesting that Zaida could have been the daughter of "un hermano mayor…Ismail ibn Abbad" of Mohammed al-Mutamid, noting particularly the practice of endogamous marriages in the Muslim dynasties[519]. As noted above, Ismail is recorded as the brother of al-Mutatid and so would have been the paternal uncle of al-Mutamid. From a chronological point of view therefore Salazar y Acha´s suggestion appears untenible, although Zaida could have been another relative, maybe the daughter of an otherwise unrecorded brother of al-Mutamid. Alberto Montaner Frutos also discusses Zaïda, in particular relating to legends which have developed in connection with her history[520]. Reilly[521] dates the start of her relationship with King Alfonso to late 1091 or 1092, suggesting its diplomatic importance would have been greatest after the fall of Córdoba in Mar 1091 but before the fall of Badajoz in early 1094. This seems supported by the likelihood that their son Sancho was at least 15 years old when he was killed at the battle of Uclés in May 1108. Zaïda was christened ISABEL[522], date not known. Reilly cites a document of Galician origin dated 27 Mar 1106 which indicates that King Alfonso had married "Helisabet" shortly before[523]. Reilly[524] quotes a charter granted at Oviedo 19 Mar 1106 which lists members of the royal family, naming "Elisabeth" directly before "Sancho", which presumably refer to Zaïda and her son. "…Helisabet Regina, Reimundus comes, Urraca regis filia, Sancius filius regis…" subscribed the charter dated 14 May 1107 under which "Adefonsus…Toletani imperii rex…cum…uxore mea Helisabet regina" approved the mint of Santiago de Compostela[525]. Reilly assumes that the reference is to King Alfonso´s presumed fourth wife Isabel (Elizabeth)[526], but it appears more likely that the document refers to Zaïda. Reilly says that her sepulchral inscription (presumably now lost) reportedly stated that she had died in childbirth on 13 Sep, without giving the year, and in a later passage that the inscription stated that this was the "second ferial day", which he interprets as meaning a Monday or Thursday[527]. If the charters dated 1106 and 1107 correctly refer to Zaida, the year must have been 1107 assuming that King Alfonso married his sixth wife in 1108. Pérez´s history of Sahagún monastery, published in 1782, states that Queen Isabel was buried "en la Capilla mayor" of the monastery, but does not quote the inscription which confirms this statement[528].
_____________________________

& Leave it alone Wiki, look also the MedLands of the 3 children do not mention doubts. (but we didn't spam those here either)
You have to see the presentation of Medlands as an equation developed to show you the solution...

As long as there are two Elisabeths / Isabel and not one, then yes, it makes sense.

Don't worry I have already gone through nodes like this.
(it looks like it was compiled by reading the headlines and not the chapters)

Erica Howton & Kevin Lawrence Hanit , please read carefully, it is not possible misunderstand or do not understand sentences like:

..but he does not cite the reference[509].
.. also clearly misdated.
Reilly assumes a French origin, """""speculating"""""""" that she belonged to a younger branch of the house of Burgundy, but quotes """"""no documentary evidence""""""" for this or any other French origin[514]. It used to be widely accepted that she was the daughter of Louis VI King of France, based on a funerary inscription, but this is """"""chronologically impossible"""""""""". Her existence is questionable and it is possible that she was """"in fact the same person as Isabel née Zaïda"""" shown below as King Alfonso's fifth wife. """
"" memorials no longer exists.... ...but it is more likely that this document refers to Queen Isabel/Elisabeth née Zaïda (see below).]""""""
___________
-practically the opposite: ML say there are no evidence to think they are 2 different women.
-however 2 children are on 4th and ML mentions them on 5th.
-the 2 Moroccan brother clones MP are still there to be merged.

Keep investigating the truth for it hall bring us all some knowledge.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=JcI0iI1TiD4C&amp;pg=PA59&amp;lp...

Livio (liked👍🏽)

Erica , I worked hard on this profile.

I quoted several Spanish Scholars and even Spanish Texts from 1800s

Justin Blocked and created this biased mess.

His points being,”western Historians in forums say so”

I beg to differ as others challenged these scholars with valid argument and points.

I am a believer of the Zaida is Isabel theory.

Anwar

https://media.geni.com/p13/aa/83/18/cf/534448484166a827/zaida_eliza...

Private User ..as you can see after the right amount of time (C) helped me fix things like MedLands new updates :)

TNX also for the private messages to remeber me about this discussion.. ..and just about your question about my language that I need you:
it remains to adjust the multilingual names of the Moroccan side.. [point2 https://www.geni.com/discussions/207686?msg=1363425]

practically create a new detached draft profile, in which it is compiled in English, French, Spanish, Catalan, Arabic .. and I bet that here two brothers will merge easily together..
You which languages could be useful?

Private UserLivio Scremin
Hatte Blejer (absent until Nov 1)

Who were Zaida biological parents?
Was she just another peasent girl taken from the commoners to royal 👑 families?

What are your findings?
I want to know more.

@Roberto I saw your request to put Zaida daughter of Al-Mu'tamid ibn Abbad III, emir of Seville (are you relying on the curator's old top note? at least I haven't found anything else about it)

However, according to the multilingual hypothesis, that corresponds to the father of Zaida's husband: Al-Mu'tamid ibn Abbad III, emir of Seville

This would make them brother and sister, of different mother.
(or that note comes from a Medland previous to the latest updates)

I did some research on endogenous marriages, and although it may seem strange to Westerners, in reality they are not:
*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endogamy

This is what I found, but here I'm really far from home .. the word to you all! :D

"This is what I found, but here I'm really far from home .. the word to you all! :D"

Livio, it's a fact that at the Iberian Peninsula it all started around the year 650, the question about stopping it (again) after the fall of the Roman Empire (when it was not allowed), too close consanguinity when it comes to marriage. They suggested that all should have at least a four degrees of none relationship with their respectively, and this what later brought into the christianity in all of the western Europe, the reason was just that because of to narrow matrimony between parts, they noticed side-effects that was all but wanted.

Unfortunately, the ones not adopting this new rules were as always, the notabilities who later would in high degree misuse their positions in the society by just writing a letter to the pope or king in order to get around it, when they wanted to marry too cloose cousins. As a result, the pedigree collapse of royalties today are enourmous.

Someone marrying a halffbrother or sister is thus, not that unthinkable during the time period described in this case. (I hate my self for just knowing about this).

(me too, when I found out to completely ignore that it was almost mandatory for the pharaohs! :)