Unplaceable facts for this project

Started by Private User on Sunday, October 27, 2019
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Private User
10/27/2019 at 1:13 PM

The Farmers Loan and Trust Company, 1879-1880 (officers)
R.G. Rolston, President; G.F. Talman, Vice-President; R.C. Boyd, Second Vice-President; G.P. Fitch, Secretary. Executive Committee: Moses Taylor, J.J. Astor, Isaac Bell, G.F. Talman, Samuel Sloan, Edward Minturn, R.G. Rolston. (Display Ad. New York Times, Apr. 11, 1879 p. 6.)

I list these for future reference... The Astors and the Spinglers had an early association: Henry Spingler wife before Mary Bonsall was Jane Sloo... Her half sister was Mary Todd (Cox) whose daughter married the original John Jacob Astor, grandfather of the above.
Sarah Cox Astor
Sarah Todd (Cox)
Jane Spingler
Henry Spingler

Private User
10/27/2019 at 1:14 PM
Private User
10/27/2019 at 1:16 PM

The Farmers Loan and Trust Company, 1882-1884
No. 26 Exchange Place, New York. Directors: * George F. Talman, Vice Pres.; * Moses Taylor; * Isaac Bell; William Walter Phelps; A.H. Baylis; W.W. Astor; Jno. H. Mortimer; W.H. Wisner; Charles E. Dill; A.S. Murray; Thomas Rutter; J.H. Banker; S. Clark Jervoise; * John J. Astor; * Robert Lenox Kennedy; * Samuel Sloan; Percy R. Pyne; William Remsen; James Roosevelt; Edgar S. Auchincloss; A.R. Van Nest; R.L. Cutting; Edward R. Dell; N.L. McCready; C.H. Thompson; * R.G. Rolston (President); and Denning Duer. (* Executive Committee). W.D. Searls, 2nd Vice Pres.; William H. Leupp, Secretary; Frank Munn, Asst. Sec'y. (Display Ad. New York Times, Feb. 7, 1882 p. 7.) In 1883, it moved to Nos. 20 and 22 William St. Baylis, Mortimer, Talman and Taylor left, and Frederick Billings, Robert C. Boyd, and Moses Taylor Pyne joined the board. (Display Ad. New York Times, Sep. 19, 1883 p. 7; Display Ad. New York Times, May 28, 1884 p. 7.)

Private User
10/27/2019 at 1:24 PM

The Farmers Loan and Trust Company, 1929
Board of Directors: John G. Agar, Francis M. Bacon, Gilbert G. Browne, Joseph P. Cotton, Edward P. Currier, Lewis L. Delafield, Charles D. Dickey, Donald Durant, Robert L. Gerry, Parker D. Handy, E. Roland N. Harriman [S&B 1917], Augustus V. Heely, David F. Houston, Irving H. Meehan, Ogden Mills, Frederick Osborn, Charles A. Peabody, James H. Perkins, Percy R. Pyne 2d, Samuel Sloan, and Paul M. Warburg. (Display Ad 172. New York Times, Jan. 3, 1929 p. 48.)

Note : Paul Warburg (a German) was instrumental in the founding of the Federal Reserve.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Warburg

Private User
10/27/2019 at 1:28 PM

I should point out that there is no logical connection business connection between Henry Spingler van Beuren and JJ Astor .. and such. These families can only be sen as part of a Manhattan based fabric from which the cast of characters in the WGWSC arose.

Private User
10/28/2019 at 1:04 PM

from https://pubs.usgs.gov/bul/1355/report.pdf
GEOLOGICAL SURVEY, DEPT. OF INTERIOR (1972)

56. HASSAYAMPA RIVER DRAINAGE AREA
Location: West Hank of the Bradshaw Mountains, Tps. 8-13 N., Rs.
2-5W.
Topographic maps: Congress 30-minute quadrangle; Wagoner NE
15-minute quadrangle (covers only NE ~ of quadrangle); Kirkland
E. 15-minute quadrangle (covers only E Y2 of quadrangle); Mount
Union 15-minute quadrangle.
Geologic maps:
Arizona Bureau of Mines, 1958, Geologic map of Yavapai County,
scale 1:375,000.
Anderson and Blacet, 1972b, Geologic map of the Mount Union
quadrangle, scale I :62,500.
Access: U.S. Highway 89 leads south to Congress from Prescott west
of the placer areas along Hassayampa Creek. Dirt roads lead east
from U.S. Highway 89 to the different placer areas along the
Has sa yampa.
Extent: Placers are found along most of the Hassayampa River and
in many tributaries from Groom Creek near the headwaters, downstream to Blue Tank Wash, a tributary near Wickenburg.
Upper Hassayampa River (Hassayampa district): In the headwaters of the Hassayampa River, placers are found along Groom
Creek, the Hassayampa River, and small side gulches (T. 13 N., R. 2
W., Mount Union quadrangle). I have found no description of the
gold-bearing gravels in Groom Creek and nearby parts of the
Hassayampa River.
Central Hassayampa River (Wagoner, Walnut Grove, and Tiger
districts): The central part of the Hassayampa drainage area, near
Walnut Grove and Wagoner, includes the Hassayampa River, tributaries on the west side (Placerita and French Gulches), tributaries on
the east side (Blind Indian, Milk, Minnehaha, Cherry and Oak
Creeks). The gravels in the river near Walnut Grove contain
many boulders but no clay; the gold is described as flake gold. The
Hassayampa River was most actively worked between 1885 and 1890;
during that time a dam was built (near the junction of Cherry
Creek with the Hassayampa-sec. 23, T. 10 N., R. 3 W., Wagoner
quadrangle) to permit hydraulic mining in Rich Hill (10 miles
west) and large-scale operations on the Hassayampa downstream from
Wagoner. The dam failed in 1890, killing 150 people and flooding
the downstream section of the Hassayampa.
Gravels were mined along the upper parts and side gulches of
Placerita Gulch (approximately sec. 14, T. II N., R. 4 W., Congress
quadrangle), near the junction of Placerita and French Gulches
(sees. 7 and 18, T. II N., R. 3 W., Kirkland quadrangle), and on
French Gulch, 1 mile southeast of Zonia (sec. 17 or 18, T. II N.,
R. 3 W.). Much of the gold in these gulches is fairly coarse and
many JA- and Y2-ounce nuggets were recovered.
Placers have also been found in Blind Indian and Milk Creeks
on the east side of the Hassayampa (Tps. 10 and II N., Rs. 2 and 3
W.), but these were not worked so extensively as the placers in
Placerita and French Gulches. Placer gold was reportedly found on
Slate and Milk Creeks in beds of volcanic agglomerate that were
hydraulicked before 1905.
South of Blind Indian and Milk Creeks, small placers were
worked in Minnehaha, Cherry, and Oak Creeks. Placers were found
near the headwaters of Minnehaha Creek in Minehaha Flat (unsurveyed sees. 19, 30, 31, T. 10 N., R. I W., Crown King quadrangle) and on Oak Creek, I mile below Fentons Ranch (sec. 3
or 9, T. 9 N., R." 2 W., Crown King quadrangle).
Lower Hassayampa River (Black Rock and Blue Tanks districts):
Small placers are found in the Black Rock region in T. 8 N .,
R. 3 W. (Congress quadrangle) and on the Hassayampa River near
the mouth of Blue Tank Wash in T. 7 N., R. 5 W., near the
Maricopa County-Yavapai County boundary.
Production history: Upper Hassayampa River (Hassayampa district):
The placers in Groom Creek were discovered in the 1860's and
actively worked in the 1880's. Sparks (1917) estimated $3 million
production in placer gold from Groom Creek, but this estimate is
probably grossly high. During the 1930's this northern region was
placered on a small scale by many individuals, and from 1939 to
1942, a dragline dredge on the Hobbs property (unlocated) on the
Hassayampa River recovered several hundred ounces of placer gold.
Central Hassayampa River (Wagoner, Walnut Grove, and Tiger
districts): Most placer mining in the central region was done by
individuals using drywash machines.
Lower Hassayampa River (Black Rock and Blue Tanks districts): Minor amounts of placer gold were recovered intermittently
from this region and from the Hassayampa River in Maricopa
County.
Source: The tributaries of the Hassayampa River drain a wide area
of mineralized terrain. The ore deposits that contributed the gold
found along the Hassayampa and its tributaries are . of both Precambrian and Tertiary age, and it is difficult to demonstrate which
vein or vein systems provided the source of the placer gold. Lindgren
(1926) summarizes the physical characteristics and probable age
of many of the veins in the area.
Literature:
Allen, 1922: Location; names placer-bearing tributary creeks.
Blake, 1899: Notes presence of placer gold.
Browne, 1868: Describes discovery of placers on the Hassayampa
River.
Burchard, 1882: General history of placer mining along the Hassayampa.
---1883: History and placer-mining activity at Placeritas.
Church, 1887: Reports progress on Walnut Grove Dam.
De Wolf, 1916: Reports plans to rebuild Walnut Grove Dam.
Engineering and lVIining Journal, 1933c: Results of sampling placer
ground at Minnehaha placers.
---1890: Reports failure of Walnut Grove Dam.
Girand, 1932: Describes drywash machine used at Walnut Grove;
characteristics of gravels; size of gold recovered.
Jagger and Palache, 1905: Reports gold in Blind Indian and Milk
Creek.
Koschmann and Bergendahl, 1968: Placer-gold production.
Lindgren, 1926: Notes placers in Minnehaha Flat; locates placers
on upper Hassayampa.
Raymond, 1872: Location; extent; placer-mining techniques.
Sparks, I9I7: Production estimates for Groom Creek.
U.S. Bureau of Mines, I926-3I: Names claims and creeks where
placer mining is active.
---1934: Names claims and creeks where placer mining was active.
Wilson, I961: Hassayampa placers-location; production history;
placer-mining activity during the period 1932-33; source. Groom
Creek-location; production estimates; source. Placerita placers early history; placer-mining activity during the period I932-33;
size of nuggets.

Private User
11/9/2019 at 7:31 AM

going back to the post of 10/27/2019 at 4:16 PM:

I was interested to see if I could find evidence of intermingling of the board of Farmers with that of the Walnut Grove Water Storage Co., but I don't see anything..

One other line of inquiry: Why was the lake behind the Dam named for the Seligman Family?... Were they big holders of bonds in the WGWSC?.. or,....(?)

Private User
11/9/2019 at 7:32 AM

... continuing... What I'd really like to see is the list for a few years after the one posted ie: 1887-1894

Private User
11/9/2019 at 7:40 AM

Poor's Hand Book of Investment Securities; for the Use of ... - Page 501
https://books.google.com › books
Henry Varnum Poor - 1892
List of Bond Coupons June and December = Walnnut Grove Water Storge Co., and Farmers' Loan and Trust https://books.google.com/books?id=b220U4jsviQC&pg=PA501&dq=...

Private User
11/9/2019 at 7:45 AM

https://books.google.com/books?id=_2EhAQAAMAAJ&pg=RA8-PA750-IA1...

Lists many of the companies of 1890 that were part of offerings by Farmers'
= multiple railways and water companies across the country

Private User
12/22/2022 at 6:34 AM

keil.neff@stantec.com
Phone: (303) 410-4000
Office: Broomfield, CO

Dear Keil:

I write having read the summary that you and Nathaniel Gee wrote about Walnut Grove.

https://damfailures.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Gee_Walnut-Grove... 

I have made a study of this topic as well. For a number of years I have been compiling sources on the topic which might be of interest to you. 

Thank you for your concise work. I had previously read Dill and Liggett, whom you cite, and other studies as well.

I am engaged in a writing project that is intended to explore the more personal side of the story. I will not go on a great length here. I'm looking to be thorough about the gathering of learned resources. The hydrological side of the topic fascinates me.

I'll give you a phone call some day soon. Or, if you wish, feel free to give me a call.

Mike van Beuren

Private User
12/22/2022 at 7:42 AM

Dear Nathaniel Gee: (by email ngee@tva.gov

re:

https://damfailures.org/case-study/walnut-grove-dam-arizona-1890/

The photo for which you provide a caption:

The reservoir prior to failure with a ranch in the foreground. (Photo Source: Dill 1987, The Walnut Grove Dam Disaster of 1890, The Journal of Arizona History)

is, I believe, not the reservoir but a post dam break view of the Wickenburg area.

My memory can be a little dim, but I believe a saw a different caption to the same photo making the claim that it is Wickenburg, not the Hassayampa above the dam.

Would live to discuss.. I think I saw the caption in Liggett .. but I no longer have that work at my fingertips...

Sincerely,

Mike van Beuren

3rd great nephew of the president of the Walnut Grove Water Storage Company.

802-436-1576

mikvan52@vermontel.net

Private User
12/23/2022 at 4:47 AM

here's the reference placing the phot as Wickenburg https://books.google.com/books?id=dEdq6PYvriQC&pg=PA45&dq=Walnut+gr... see page 45 (caption)

Private User
12/23/2022 at 4:59 AM

but... this is contradicted by this: https://www.apcrp.org/Walnut%20Grove/Walnut_Grove_Cem%20032308.htm where the house in the foreground is part of the (Abner) Wade ranch and the construction camp os said to be seen in the background

Private User
12/23/2022 at 5:00 AM

reading more in this reference: "Research at the cemetery identified from 30 to 50 unmarked and unidentified graves. With the limited time we had during this visit with the other work we were performing, indications are that some of the unidentified graves are Mexican and Chinese individuals that were working on the Walnut Grove Dam and died for various reasons. Logically this indicates they were transient in nature and did not have had family or friends to identify their grave with a stone marker. A wooden cross may have been placed at their head but these have long since decayed and vanished."

Private User
12/26/2022 at 6:05 AM

Enjoyed your book on Wickenburg.. Thanks for writing it.
I've been compiling research on the Walnut Grove Dam disaster for a number of years.
Might you have files bout some of the more obscure people who died int he flood?

You can see my work at: https://www.geni.com/projects/Walnut-Grove-Dam-Failure/57045 but the site requires a subscription. Feel free to give me a call as well: Landline East Coast 802-436-1576.
Cheers! ~• Mike van Beuren
sent to: http://lynndowney.com/contact/ about her 2012 book "Wickenburg"

Private User
12/29/2022 at 2:57 AM

Arizona State Archives in Phoenix: for a look at old copies of the Wickenburg newspapers. They have the Wickenburg Miner but I am not sure that paper was being published in 1890.

Private User
12/29/2022 at 3:17 AM

Dear Lynn,

One other thing:

I am looking to pinpoint the location of the lower dam than was blown out by the collapse of the Upper Dam. Ia have this which was posted on google maps.

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0486268,-112.72293,3a,80.8y,147.03h...

Might you you have ever visited the site?

Mike vB

Private User
1/3/2023 at 7:28 AM

https://azgs.arizona.edu/minerals/mining-arizona#:~:text=In%201854%.... An appreciation of the history of mining in Arizona

Private User
1/3/2023 at 8:02 AM

From 1884 to 1893 the country Went through a severe deflation of commodity values. The copper and silver markets fell rapidly resulting in a relative rise in the price of gold. On the demonitization of silver in 1893, practically all silver mining ceased, and only the richest and largest copper mines continued to operate.

From 1893 to 1900, miners from all the old silver camps of the West again turned to the Search for gold, which resulted in Arizona in the discovery of numerous new gold deposits, more notably the Congress and Octave in the Bradshaw Mountains, the Mammoth north of Tucson, and the rich Harqua Hala, La Fortuna, and King of Arizona mines in the desert of Yuma County. The development of the cyanide process and of better concentration methods encouraged the reopening of numerous old mines near Prescott and the exploitation of the deeper base ore.

from: https://westernmininghistory.com/library/37945/page1/

Private User
1/6/2023 at 7:23 AM

The current text might need a little tweaking

https://www.ghosttowns.com/states/az/crownpoint.html 

"Crown Point's history is intertwined with then governor of Arizona Territory, Alexander O. Brodie. The mines were started in the late 1890's complete with a mill and a town of about 100. Brodie left to enlist with Roosevelt's Rough Riders but funded the operation until 1905. Today, at the end of Constellation road, are tailings and what is left of one building."

I would suggest the following substitute for accuracy.

Brodie left with many other Arizonans to enlist in Roosevelt's Rough Riders. He remained connected with his interest in Crown Point and other ventures which were in his wife's family's business empire. 

(FYI: It was the Mrs. Brodie's family that funded the Crown Point, Walnut Grove, Piedmont Cattle Co., and other ventures, not Brodie. Alexander Brodie was hired by them before he married Mary Louise Hanlon in Dec. 1892. The central figure in all the investment was one Henry Spingler van Beuren (1834-1906), a distant cousin of Mrs. Brodie, famous for having survived the Walnut Grove Dam failure of Febuary, 1890.

Sincerely,

Mike van Beuren

mikvan52@vermontel.net

802-436-1576

If you want to review extensive Brodie files, see Lieut. Col. Alexander Brodie and click on his timeline.

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