Query on GARDINER family

James Gardiner
* born 1858 Ireland
* possibly arrived in Australia with brother William on "Peterborough" in 1879

* Father - William John Gardiner, Snr (no dates)
* Mother - Margaret Gardiner (born 1821)
* Brother - William John Gardiner, Jnr (1861-1922)

William John Gardiner, Snr
* born 1808 Ireland
* spouse 1 - Jane Gardiner (died before 1856)
* Spouse 2 - Margaret Gardiner (born 1821)

https://www.ancestry.com.au/boards/surnames.gardner/2714.2.1.2/mb.ashx

Re William John Gardiner, Jnr

William John GARDINER
* born 1861
* arrived in Australia c1877
* married in 1888 to Egniss / Agnes Ada CUNDY
* death certificate has parents as William John GARDINER and Margaret YOUNG

John Thomas Gardner
* born 1887
* died 19/8/1960
* father NO RELATION
* mother - NO RELATION
* spouse - Carrie Josephine Gardner (1888-1985)

As the parents are not identified I will detach him from them until they can be identified.

I will also detach his unidentified parents from their parents

NO RELATION
* father - George Coulton / Coulter Gardner, Free Settler "Mary Pleasant" 1858 (1839-1901)
* mother - Jane Gardner (1844-1931)

George Coulton / Coulter Gardner, Free Settler "Mary Pleasant" 1858

His marriage record (attached to Geni) has
* born 1839 Glengeen, Ireland
* parents William GARDINER and Jane MOULTON

William GARDINER marriage registration to Margaret YOUNG says that he was aged 48 and widowed.

George GARDINER arrival document in 1858 says that his father was still alive and his mother deceased.

Tagging Profile managers - Can anyone add any additional information so we can ensure that the profiles are in the correct position in the World Tree

* Peter Merry
* Matthew Preston
* Private User
* Joanna Budden
* Jukka
* Faye Christine Jaeger

I think that the question comes down to what proof do we have that the same William John GARDINER married both Jane COULTON and Margaret YOUNG

We know that the husband of Margaret YOUNG was a widower in 1856 when they married and we know that Jane COULTON was definetely deceased by 1858 but do we know that Jane COULTON was his first wife?

The other thing that would show that they are the same person would be via DNA
If any of the descendants of George Coulton GARDINER match with descendants William John GARDINER Jnr (and have no other ancestors in common) that would support them having the same father.

Currently none of the descendants of either have their dna on Geni.

I have had a few messages regarding this family.

As a result we now have 2 distinct families until information can be found to put them together

Family 1
William John Gardiner, Snr
* born 1808 Ireland
* father James Gardiner
* married 1st - 1st wife Gardiner
* married 2nd - Margaret Gardiner
children
* 1858 James Gardiner
* 1861 William John Gardiner, Jnr

Family 2
William Gardiner
* spouse Jane Gardiner
children
* 1839 George Coulton / Coulter Gardner, Free Settler "Mary Pleasant" 1858

William John Gardiner 1862-1922, arrived aboard the Gulf of Venice 3 Feb 1886, the William and James that arrived aboard the Peterborough in 1877 went to their uncle in Parramatta and stayed in the area, if anybody had cared to do their research they would have found this as I did.
Yes William snr 1808-? was married twice, this I know from his marriage to Margaret Young, the marriage states he was a widow, as we know getting information from Ireland is not easy before 1865. William snr also had a brother Christopher and another Alexander, both of them came to Australia pre even George, Alexander was in Armidale for some time as this was were William John was headed when he arrived, this he planned to do on foot. William snr father was James and his mother Mary?

I can say that as I have several DNA matches to George Coulter Gardiner/Gardner, he changed the spelling, That it is fairly certain that George and William John are related.

Do we have another William GARDINER to add?

William John Gardiner, Jnr
* has no brother James (he belongs to the new William GARDINER)
* arrived in Australia "Gulf of Venice" in 1886
* his mothers name is Mary

William John Gardiner, Snr needs a brother Christopher and Alexander
* when and how did they arrive in Australia

James Gardiner
* needs a brother William GARDINER
* both these boys arrived on "Peterborough" in 1877
* what is the name of the uncle that they went to? Is their mother or their fathers brother?
* who are their parents

HI Faye,

Could you please provide more info on your DNA matches. What site is your DNA sample located? Who specifically have you matched to and what are are their DNA samples labelled as (ie sample name used). I can compare to my DNA matches of George Gardner family

thanks

Leanne, after some further research about this site I have come to the conclusion that I have no rights as to what is put on here so the best I can do is give you the information I have and try to keep it as true as it can be when anyone with or without researching their facts are allowed to contribute.
So here goes, what I have found on William and James Gardiner, that came to Australia aboard the Peterborough is, Keeping in mind that I stopped once I realised these were not mine, though as they came from the same area of Ireland the possibility of a family connection is still there.
James and William, according to the shipping records came from Tyrone, Father William, mother ELIZABETH. These 2 went to PARRAMATTA to their UNCLE PETER WAGNER. When I found this I quizzed relatives and no one knew of a James and Wagner was even more of a mystery. The other thing that gave me reason to suspect that this was not my William was a missing 10 years, if he arrived in Australia in 1877, where was he until 1888 when he married my great grandmother Agnes Ada Cundy, I did find a William John Gardiner purchasing land in Aberdeen in 1887.
The William Gardiner that came to Australia aboard the "Gulf of Venice" in 1885 was heading to his Uncle in Armidale, much more feasible, and this means he did not leave home until after his mother passed away.

Oh and as for my Cousins, Dianne, Eva and Bruce Gardiner can you please remove the unnamed brother and sister, they do not exist.

Hi Private User, Not sure why I've been tagged as I can't seem to find anything in my tree to suggest I've put a record on. Am currently travelling, so don't have my paper records to hand to chase this down, but will look when I get back to WA if required.

One of the things most annoying about Geni is that when people merge records or change info they don't leave a note of same. I have created a number of records as I've been doing research and always show the documentation that I have followed to explain why someone is part of my tree. I also add notes as I change or query anything and if everyone did the same instead of just thinking their record was the right and only one it would make a huge difference to the research.

Cheers Jo

Hi Jo,
You were tagged as you manage William John Gardiner, Jnr

It is good when people add sources for their information.

Leanne