Lucy (Council) Vick - the two Lucy Councils

Started by Erica Howton on Tuesday, May 2, 2017
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5/2/2017 at 6:23 PM

Tell me that I've gotten this right.

1. daughter of John Council and his wife Elizabeth [not Drake], married Joseph Vick b 1704 (3rd wife?)

and her niece Lucy Wooten

2. daughter of Hodges Council and his wife Lucy Hardy, married Richard Wooten.

5/2/2017 at 6:25 PM

Angus Wood-Salomon Amy Nordahl Cote Private User - you all have an interest in this line, I think.

Private User
5/2/2017 at 6:52 PM

Looks good to me Erica. Thanks!

5/8/2017 at 1:21 PM

Lucy Council [b. 1676] married Richard Wooten II. I'm still unsure of Elizabeth's father. Maybe it is Drake; John Council [b. 1621] is grandfather of Lucy Council. John Council [b. 1643] is her father, who married Lucy Hardy. Her grandfather married [or had a child with] Elizabeth. I will check my Geni profile again, where I may have made a change not reflected in my TribalPages. From what I recall, I thought it was Francis Drake, but had second thoughts on his middle name being Adam.

5/8/2017 at 1:57 PM

Posted by: BCR Date: October 13, 2001 at 21:30:01
In Reply to: Elizabeth DRAKE family UNKNOWN!! by W.L. Barkerof 5901
John Councill born abt 1623 married Mary Elizabeth Drake born abt 1623.....I obtained this information from the book, HODGES COUNCILL OF VIRGINIA AND DESCENDANTS, written by Judson Council, published in 1941.
I am a direct descendant of Hodges Councill..I have used researchers who have visited archives in Virginia and North Carolina. I personally visited the Council Cemetery on the land deeded to Hodges Councill in Isle of Wight Co., Va. I also have photos of the grave site.The only information on Mary Elizabeth Drake is on page 18 in the book, "It is claimed that John Councill first married Elizabeth Drake of Springfield, Devonshire, England, and that she was a close relative of Sir Francis Drake........etc"
It has not been accepted that John and Mary Eliz. ever came to America, but John their son did. I believe John was really John Hodges Council, names after his father. No proof!
The information is accepted by the DAR and Colonial Dames organizations.
Re: Olive Council md. John Hardy, Bedford Cnty, England, 1632
Posted by: shelli Date: January 20, 2001 at 09:03:20
In Reply to: Re: Olive Council md. John Hardy, Bedford Cnty, England, 1632 by Hugh Darrell Rutherfordof 403
Hi, Hugh!
I am descended from Olive Council and John Hardy through their son Capt. George Hardy. I don't have much info on them, but if you wouldn't mind tossing some my way I'd really appreciate it.
One question, though: I've seen other postings that list Elizabeth Drake as the d/o Adam Drake and Joan Royce. Your info has her as the d/o William II Drake. I'm confused. Help!

5/8/2017 at 2:03 PM

Thanks Barbara. I realize the parentage of Elizabeth, the wife of John Council, is controversial.

Does the alignment of 2 Lucy's, aunt & niece, make sense? I don't see how they could have been the same person.

5/8/2017 at 3:18 PM

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Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 22:40:08 -0700
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Organization: Home
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To: Bob Burns <bburns@kanokla.net>
Subject: Re: [DRAKE-L] Elizabeth Drake who married John Hodges Council at
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I have been beating my head against the wall....all I have is a Adam Drake who
married a Joan Royce of Springfield, Devonshire, England. They produced a
daughter Elizabeth b 1623 who married John Hodges Council abt 1638. We have
much speculation that Adam Drake was the son or grandson of one of Sir Francis
Drake's 11 brothers. Sir Francis Drake was born in Tavistock in Devonshire,
Eng. about 1540-43 so I am thinking Adam must have been a grandson....no
proof and I can't find any names of the 11 brothers of Sir Francis. His
father was Edmund Drake who was a minister. Edmund Drake's wife and mother of
Sir Francis was a Mylwaye but don't have a first name. Very sketchy
information. Sir Francis was married twice but no issue from either
marriage. Keep intouch and hopefully we will get some of this jigsaw put
together. Maybe it was that I thought it was Adam Drake; but not evidence it was Francis Adam or Adam Francis. Sir Francis lived in an earlier time period, anyway. I found this:
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Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 22:40:08 -0700
From: Dewyene Newton <weenygal@bellsouth.net>
Organization: Home
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To: Bob Burns <bburns@kanokla.net>
Subject: Re: [DRAKE-L] Elizabeth Drake who married John Hodges Council at
References: <LPBBLKHMENPCBABHHFMFOEIBCCAA.bburns@kanokla.net>
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I have been beating my head against the wall....all I have is a Adam Drake who
married a Joan Royce of Springfield, Devonshire, England. They produced a
daughter Elizabeth b 1623 who married John Hodges Council abt 1638. We have
much speculation that Adam Drake was the son or grandson of one of Sir Francis
Drake's 11 brothers. Sir Francis Drake was born in Tavistock in Devonshire,
Eng. about 1540-43 so I am thinking Adam must have been a grandson....no
proof and I can't find any names of the 11 brothers of Sir Francis. His
father was Edmund Drake who was a minister. Edmund Drake's wife and mother of
Sir Francis was a Mylwaye but don't have a first name. Very sketchy
information. Sir Francis was married twice but no issue from either
marriage. Keep intouch and hopefully we will get some of this jigsaw put
together. [ from http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/DRAKE/2000-08/0967700953 ]

5/8/2017 at 3:36 PM

The tree for Sir Francis Drake, Vice Admiral

You'd need to look a couple of generations down in his brother Thomas' line.

5/8/2017 at 6:06 PM

I think the Elizabeth Drake whose information is born in Springfield, Devon; is this one:
Elizabeth Trefusis (Drake) MP
Gender: Female
Birth: before January 16, 1622
Springfield, Devon, , England
Immediate Family:

Daughter of Sir Francis Drake, MP, 1st Baronet and Joanna Trefusis
Wife of John Trefusis
Mother of Francis Trefusis, MP; Dorothy Trefusis; Jane Ley; Sarah Blight and Bridget Trefusis
Sister of Maria Drake; Major Thomas Drake; Sir Francis Drake, MP, 2nd Baronet; William Drake; Sarah Drake; Joan Drake; Joseph Drake and John Drake « less
Half sister of Dorothy Drake, (died young)
Added by: Leslie Sholly (Hunley) on August 20, 2008
Managed by: Leslie Sholly (Hunley) and 13 others
Curated by: Erin Spiceland
Children of Francis Drake and Joan Stroud are:

12. iii. Elizabeth Drake. She married John Trefusis of Trefusis, Cornwall on 14 February 1638/39 in Bere Ferrers.

Children: Dorothy Trefusis, Jane Ley (born Trefusis), Sarah Blight (born Trefusis), Bridget Trefusis, Francis Trefusis
"Drakes of Buckland"
"England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JMPD-DBM : accessed 15 July 2015), Elizabetha Drake, 16 Jan 1622; citing BUCKLAND MONACHORUM,DEVON,ENGLAND, reference ; FHL microfilm 916,766.
“THE FAMILY AND HEIRS OF SIR FRANCIS DRAKE VOL. I"
The Visitation of the County of Cornwall, in the Year 1620, Volume 9 By Sir Henry Saint-George, Samson Lennard. Page 224.
2 John Trefusis, gent., and Mary Gavergan mar. 17 June, 1583. St. Mabyn Par. Reg. (J.M.) • John Trcfusis, ar., of Milor, and D'nam Joanna Drake of Back. Hon., wid., mar. 6 Aug., 1639.
John Trefusis, jun., of Milor, gen., and Elizb. Drake of Buck. Mon., spinster, mar. 13 Feb., 1638.

5/8/2017 at 6:18 PM

Joan Gawton
Born [date unknown] [location unknown]
Ancestors
Daughter of Thomas Hunt Gawton Sr. and Patience (Best) Gawton
Sister of Thomas Gawton, Agnis Gawton, Elizabeth Gawton, Alice Gawton and William Gawton
Descendants
Mother of Elizabeth Drake

Sir Francis "1st Baronet Drake of Buckland Abbey" Drake MP
Born before 16 Sep 1588 in Buckland Abbey, Devon, Englandmap
Ancestors ancestors
Son of Thomas Drake and Elizabeth (Gregory) Drake
Brother of George Drake [half] and Elizabeth (Drake) Bampfield
Husband of Jane (Bampfield) Drake — married 22 Sep 1602 [location unknown]
Husband of Joan (Strode) Trefusis — married 5 Jun 1615 [location unknown]
Descendants descendants
Father of Dorothy Drake, Mary (Drake) Crymes, Francis Drake MP, Thomas Drake, Elizabeth (Drake) Trefusis, John Drake, William Drake, Elizabeth Drake, Sarah Drake, Joseph Drake and Joan Drake
Died 11 Mar 1637 in Buckland Abbey, Devon, , Englandmap
Profile managers: Heather Mize private message [send private message] and Tom Culver private message [send private message]
Drake-1804 created 29 Aug 2011 | Last modified 27 Apr 2017 | Last edit: 27 Apr 2017
13:36: C. Mackinnon edited the Nicknames for Francis Drake MP. [Thank C. for this]
This page has been accessed 1,142 times.

Categories: Buckland Abbey, Buckland Monachorum | Exeter College, Oxford | Members of Parliament, England.
Biography

Francis was born about 1588. Francis Drake ... He passed away about 1637. [1]

Possible nephew, and heir, of Sir Francis Drake. Sir Francis bought Buckland Abbey in 1580.

Sources

Wikipedia biography [1]
History of Parliament [2]

Acknowledgements

WikiTree profile Drake-1804 created through the import of Heather Mize Family Tree from Ancestry.ged on Aug 28, 2011 by Heather Mize. See the Changes page for the details of edits by Heather and others.

↑ First-hand information as remembered by Tom Culver, Wednesday, April 9, 2014. Replace this citation if there is another source.

5/8/2017 at 6:49 PM

The Buckland Abbey Drake connection was debunked a year or two ago, and we separated the trees. There is good documentation for the Buckland side of the line that disproves a connection between their Elizabeth and our Councils.

https://www.geni.com/discussions/148422?by_or_about=600000000352390...

5/8/2017 at 6:50 PM

I haven't worked on this line for a while and have some catching up to do.

The solidly proven line seems to end with Hodges Council m. Lucy Hardy.

There is some disagreement among researchers about Lucy and Joseph Vick. Some notes worth reading here:

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Vick-165

I have never seen any documentation to prove a Drake-Council connection. It would be worth trying to figure out how far back the Drake claim might go--perhaps we could find the oldest references and see if they more or less agree.

This blogger (see link) states that the COUNCIL/COUNSELL line goes back to Wedmore, Somerset, where the Counsells were tenants of the Hodges and occasionally connected to them by marriage. Seems worth looking into. The blogger believes the father of our Hodges Council is likely to be a RICHARD Council (wow, really?) whose brother-in-law was a Hodges. He discusses the Hardy and Bennett families as well. A lot to look at in this blog.

https://walterfitzgilbertdehamilton.wordpress.com/2016/11/01/counci...

(Sorry to say the Vick and Drake families aren't mentioned here in connection with the Councils, though if you search the site, the names come up in other blog entries, so maybe there is something on one of the other pages.)

This researcher (see link) is likewise looking at Somerset for the origin of the Councils, and writes that the YDNA results hint in that direction:

"Two of our members in the DNA Project are from England and their families are from the Wedmore area. My Counsell matches theirs through DNA and we suspect a connection around 1500."

http://newsfeed.rootsweb.com/th/read/ENG-SOMERSET/2006-09/1159493054

Francis Drake was from Devon, anyhow, next to Somerset, so maybe there is still hope on that front...

Private User
5/8/2017 at 7:42 PM

I see the Joane Gawton muddle is back. FIRST thing, please check the Miles Files http://espl-genealogy.org/MilesFiles/site/p66.htm#i6547 - they will give you as close to the real scoop as you're likely to get.

Her father was Thomas Gawton. NO MIDDLE NAME.

Thomas HUNT was HER SECOND HUSBAND. (And my direct ancestor!)

We went through the megillah with Henry Drake (father of her *first* husband) and Mary Lee some time back - he *may* be related to the Drakes of Devon, but the paper trail, if there ever was one, is long gone.

5/8/2017 at 8:09 PM

It looks like Elizabeth Drake Council may be Elizabeth Drake Trefusis' half sister. Maybe there are multiple Elizabeths in the family due to Sir Francis Drake, the seafarer being so close to Queen Elizabeth I. It's also possible that the WikiTree moderator is another who is grasping at straws.

http://bjhughes.org/coundoc.html

Edward Bryan came over from England on the "Bona Nova", in 1620. A blank period between 1624 and about 1665, when an Edward Bryan (possibly a son, or maybe a grandson of the first Edward), married Christian Council, d/o Hodges Council and Lucy Hardy. In the meantime, the first Edward Bryan, married a daughter of John Needham, one of the "servants" of the famous Sanbys (sp), treasurer of the Colony.
Edward Bryan who married Christian Council was either a son or grandson of Edward the first and his wife, Miss Needham. (Old Albemarle, and its Absentee Landlords by Worth S. Ray, Bryan Family)

Richard Wooten, Jr., was born in Isle of Wight County in 1660 and died in 1730, he married Lucy Council in 1699. She was born in 1670, the daughter of Lucy Hardy and Hodges Council. It is through this line that descendants are eligible for Magna Charta membership, through three of the Barons, 1215. I chose the Quincey line for my membership, because of my great interest in the Anjou connection. (“A Few Wootens And Some Connecting Lines”, by Mrs. Elisabeth Wooten Holmes, Lenoir Co., NC Heritage)

John Hardy’s will was dated 7 Oct 167_, and probated 9 June 1677. In this will he named his wife, Alice, his daughters, Olivia Driver, Lucy Council and Deborah; his grandchildren, Hardy Driver and others; also his sons-in-law Giles Driver, Hodges Council, Robert Burnett and William Mayo. He was a prominient citizen and churchman. (Hardy and Hardie Past and Present, H. Claude Hardy and Rev. Edwin Noah Hardy, The Syracuse Typesetting Co, Syracuse, NY 1935, pp.236-237)

"On 20 Dec 1673 Hodges Council made a gift of land as follows: "I Hodges Councill of the Lower Parish do give.... to Joseph Vick of ye said Parish, 50 acres on Beaver Dam Swamp, adjacent to Robert Lawrence... and furthermore it is agreed that if the said Joseph Vicks have any other child beside this his present daughter, going by and bearing the name of Lucy, she shall after the decease of her father enjoy the land for her and her heirs, but if the aforesaid Jos. Vicks shall have any more children by this, his present wife, sonne or daughter, neverthe less the above Lucy shall enjoy ye land, but if the said Lucy shall decease without heirs, then the said land shall fall to either brother or sister, but if the said Joseph Vicks and his daughter Lucy shall both decease without heirs, then the aforesaid shall fall unto ye said Hodges Councill and his heirs again.
Signed Hodges Council
Witnesses: John Brown, Rowland Buckley, & Richard Booth"
This deed was recorded on 9 March 1681/2 (IOW DB1, p.480)

Lucy Hardy, daughter of #11 above, was born in Isle of Wight County, VA, d. bef 1699, m. in 1670 Hodges Counil, born in England, d. in Isle of Wight Co 1699, He received grants of 1200 acres from the VA Governors and purchased 300 acres. He left two Wills on file in Isle of Wight Co, each recorded the same day in 1699, with the same people mentioned in both, but with a different division of land between heirs. He was possibly the s/o John Council who m. second in 1666 Alice, widow of Richard Jeffries. (Magna Charta, Part VII by John S Wurts of Germantown, Philadelphia, PA, 1954, Brookfield Publishing Co, p2137).

John Council, b. Isle of Wight Co, d. there bef 1747, m. Josie Willis, d/o Benjain Willis. The Councils all had magnificant estates. They were members of St. Lukes Church, near Smithfield, called the “Old Brick Church,” and served as vestrymen. (Magna Charta, Part VII by John S Wurts of Germantown, Philadelphia, PA, 1954, Brookfield Publishing Co, p2137).

James Council, b. near Franklin, Isle of Wight Co, in 1716, d. Bladen Co, NC 1804 aand is buried there at the side of his first wife, Sallie Kitchen. He removed to Bladen Co in 1738 and purchased land from the Loard Proprietor, and received a grant of land from King George in the 1750’s for service in the Indian Wars. He was a member of the Provincial Congress, which sat at Halifax, was elected and returned in 1776. He was paymaster of Continental troops and served in the War of 1776. He m. second in 1751 Joanna Willis, b. VA (Magna Charta, Part VII by John S Wurts of Germantown, Philadelphia, PA, 1954, Brookfield Publishing Co, p2137).

It has been claimed that John Councill first married Elizabeth Drake of Springfield, Devonshire, England, and that she was a close relative of Sir Francis Drake, the first Englishman to encircle the earth. The writer has not seen a published reference to it. Hodges Councill acquire by grants from the Virginia Governors more than 1200 acres. From George Pierce he purchased 300 acres in 1674 (Deed Book 1, p.30). During Bacon’s Rebellion, William West headed a force marching to take a loyal fort. He was captured January 16, 1677. In October, Hodges Councill and others signed a petition to the Commissioners for his release. (Calendar of State Papers, Vol. 39, Folio 85). The public records of Isle of Wight County, VA contain many references to Hodges Councill and his descendants.
January 7, 1915 Kinchin Bascom Council wrote: “I am accumulating data that I hope will be of assistance to some brave soul who will undertake to rescue from oblivion our early history and traditions.” Much of the data contributed mentioned elsewhere was the result of research by the late Kinchin Bascom Council, 1864-1931, of Bladen Co., NC, a successful business man, civic leader and family genealogist... IN substance he wrote: I have spent much time investigating the record of our early settlers because of the satisfaction it gives. Bladen County records were burned in 1765 and again in 1893. Some records are still to be found, though I have not searched those of Robeson or Cumberland Counties. It would take a lot of time to list all my findings, but I will say that all seem to be descended from Hodges Council who came to VA about the time of Cromwell’s death, 1658. Hodges Council was a son of John Council and his wife Elizabeth Drake of Devonshire, England. (Hodges Council of Virginia and Descendants, p.18, 59)

Hodges Council made his will in Isle of Wight in 1699. He married Lucy, daughter of John Hardy, Justice of the County Court, about 1675...Hodges Council, in his will of 1699, mentions daughter Christian wife of Edward Bryan. He was possibly the son of John Council who married secondly, Mrs. Jeffries, the relict of Richard Jeffries, in 1666. [Boddie, Seventeenth Century Isle of Wight, page 216]

"Discovery in Pamlico County, North Carolina...[found]in the Scotttstown area near Goose Creek in Pamlico County...a 600 to 800 pound granite slab from an abandoned cemetery. [inscription reads] "Edward Bryan, Born in London 1663, Emigrated to Nansemond County, Virginia 1690, Moved to Craven County 1700. Died 1739. Christiana, his wife, daughter of Hodges Council died 1743." [North Carolina Genealogical Society "News" vol 17#3, page 30]

2 Dec 1710...John Councell of Newport Parish to John Mackmiall of the same...300 acres in Newport Parish(being land John Hardy of the lower parish willed to his dau.Lucy Councell who was the mother of the said John Councell and left it to him) on the southeast side of John Fulgram Swamp adjoining William Westray and William Joyner. Wit: William Greene,Henry Pitt and John Councell Thomas Cutchan Rec. 26 Feb 1710 (ISLE OF WIGHT COUNTY VIRGINIA DEEDS 1647-1719, COURT ORDERS1693-1695, and GUARDIAN ACCOUNTS1740-1767 by William Lindsay Hopkins p.100, IW DB 2 1704-1715 pg. 171)

2 Aug 1724...Hodges Councill,the Younger, and wife Katherin Councill of the lower parish of Isle of Wight Co. to William Edmondson of the upper parish of Nansemond County...120 acres in the lower parish on Blackwater River adjoining Richard Watters(?)(being part of a patent granted Hodges Council the Elder on 20 Apr 1682 and who willed it to his grandson, the said Hodges Council theYounger on 9 Aug 1699) Wit:Stephen Darden, William(X)Goling, Hodges Councill, James Holland Rec.28 Sep 1724 Catherine(X)Councill (Isle of Wight Deeds, Wills--Great Book Vol.2 1715-1726 pg.663

22 Mar 1730 Hardy Council, Gent. to Richard Wooten and wife, Lucy Wooten and their son William Wooten as consideration of a law suit over trepass(Lucy Wooten is a sister of Hardy Council)...500 acres on Beaver Dam Swamp. Wit:Barnaby Kearney,Christopher Reynolds, Hardy Council, John Pitt Rec 22 Mar 1730 (Isle of Wight Co.,Va Deeds 1720-1736 and 1741-1749 by Hopkins pg 30, Isle of Wight Deed Book 4 1729-1736 pg.98)

20 Apr 1731...James Bryan, Yeoman, of the lower parish and wife Joan Bryan to Walter Bryan,Yeoman of the same...200 acres adjoining Hodges Council (being part of a patent dated 1677 which was granted to Mr. Hodges Council,Sr. as 941 acres...on 9 Aug 1699, he willed 200 acres of the patent to his daughter, Christina(Bryan)the wife of Edward Bryan and her heir,John Bryan,Sr. willed it to the said James Bryan). Wit:John Bretten, Edward(X)Taylor, James(X)Bryan, James(X)Bryan Rec 26 Apr 1731 Joan(X)Bryan (Isle of Wight Co.,Va Deeds 1720-1736 and 1741-1749 by Hopkins pg 30, Isle of Wight Deed Book 4 1729-1736 pg.104)

Edgecombe Co., NC was formed in 1733 and was the mother of Halifax, Martin, Nash, Washington, etc. The later were formed before the first census of 1790. There were several families of Councils in this section. John, son of Hodges had descendants who had lived there but moved to the Cape Fear Section with their Va. kin between 1742 and 1770. The Virginia invasion occurred between 1740 and 1770 when hundreds of Virginians came down to NC because the Legislature passed a law requiring all non-residents to acquire ten acres for each head of stock ranging in the Colony or become citizens. Old John’s sons and grandsons had thousands of cattle and it was cheaper to moved into the Wilderness than to buy it. animosity existed between the stockmen and the authorities. The officials were grafters and sought to exploit the settlers. Occasionally there was a decent Governor before the Revolution. In 1726 John Council advised Sir Richard Everhard, then Governor, that certain of his henchmen were slaughtering great numbers of his cattle and gave notice that he would protect his property. The succeeding governor, Burrington, in 1728 paid the settlers this compliment, “the people of NC are neither to be cajoled or outwitted. Whenever a Governor attempts to do anything by this mean he will lose his labors and show his ignorance. The inhabitants are subtle and crafty, always behave, insolently to their governors; others they have driven from the colony and at other times set up a governor of their own choice by men under arms.” In 1728 the year the line was established between NC and VA Col. Wm. Byrd one of the boundary commissioners said the “borderers laid it to heart” if their land was taken in VA. They chose, much rather to belong to NC where they paid no tribute to “God or to Caesar”. (Hodges Councill of Virginia and Descendants. Judson Council, Baltimore, MD 1941 pp.60-61)

In Edgcecombe Precinct, Robert Council had 100 acres of land on which he was arrears of Quit Rent, Jun 12, 1735. (Colonial Records Vol. 4 p523, Bertie and Edgecombe Co, NC) (The Councils from VA to NC, The Robert Council Line, by Irma Ragan Holland, 1978)

20 Apr 1736 Hardy Council of Newport Parish in the county of Isle of Wight to Mary Corbitt, Widow and Johnson Corbitt of the same,for the consideration of the sum of 9£ 10s...100 acres upon the head of the branches of Beaverdam Swamp... Rec. 23 Aug, 1736. Wit: John Corbitt (Isle of Wight Deed Book 5 p13)

4/17/1737 - Robert Council of NC sold to Matthew Grifin of the Isle of Wight Co of VA for 20 pounds in Newport Parish, 150 acres near Beaver Dam Swamp. Also Thomas Turner sold Robert Council 100 acres of land. (The Councils from VA to NC, The Robert Council Line, by Irma Ragan Holland, 1978)

2/25/1740 Robert Council listed as Juryman. (Colonial Records Vol. 4 p523, Bertie and Edgecombe Co, NC)(The Councils from VA to NC, The Robert Council Line, by Irma Ragan Holland, 1978)

"On 15 Sep 1758, Richard Daughtry sold to Robert Johnson, 200 acres (being part of a patent granted Mr Hardy Council, dec'd. who willed it in 1748/49 to his daughter Christian Council, now Christian Daughtry, the wife of the said Richard Daughtry). . ." (Isle of Wight DB 10, p. 53)

Richard Wotton (II) (the name is spelled Wooten), son of Richard Wotton (I) and his wife, Joyce, make his home in Isle of Wight County, VA. His wife is Lucy Council, daughter of Hodges Council and his wife, Lucy Hardy. Hodges Council and his family attended Old St. Lukes church and he was a member of the vestry there. Richard Wooten (II) and three known children: Richard III, William, and John. Richard Wooten III lived and died in Isle of Wight County, VA. William made his home in Edgecombe County, NC near the Pitt County Line. John made his home in Pitt County, NC near the Edgecombe County line. John and his brother, William, were just a few miles apart. John Wooten had a land grant from the Earl of Granville, dated Aug. 6, 1761.
John Wooten, son of Richard Wooten (II) and his wife, Lucy Council, was married twice. His first wife was a daughter of Shadrach Williams. His second wife was named Mary. I am not sure of her maiden name. John Wooten had a large family, at least six sons and two daughters. The sons are: Shadrach, John Jr., William, Richard, Josiah, Council, and perhaps Levi. the two daughters names are unknown. A search of the Pitt County records reveals a lot about this old family. John Wooten Sr., and John Wooten, Jr. listed their occupations as hatters. John Wooten Sr. was a minor in 1730 and he died in 1779 in Pitt County.) (“Thomas Wooten Family - 1343 by, Ima Eula Mewborn, Chronicles of Pitt County, NC)

1/5/1776 - Robert Council sold to Luke Turner land for 30 pounds - VA currency. (Deed Book 5 p 407 Halifax Co, NC) (The Councils from VA to NC, The Robert Council Line, by Irma Ragan Holland, 1978)

11/29/1783 - Scutchings Councill, 25 Acres, Isle of Wight, VA 1792
Henry Lee, Esquire, governor of the Commonwealth of VA
To all whom these presents shall come, Greetings. Here ye, by virtue and in consideration of a land office, Tresury warrant Numbert 26 issued 11/20/1783 there is granted by the said Commonwealth unto Scutchings Councill a certain tract or parcel of land containing 25 acres by law having date, dating 4/22/1790 laying and being in the County of Isle of Wight and bounded by followeth, To Wit, Beginning at the lower fork Kingsale swamp and lowest end of Rick Island running up the East Swamp 85 poles to a gum standing in the upper fork of the said Swamp and at the head of the said Island, thence down a small Rung of Kingsale swamp and the Meandare there of to the Beginning with its appuetamances, as have and to hold the said Tract or Parcel of land with it appuetamances to the said Scutchings Councill and his Heire for ever.
In Witness Whereof, the Said Henry Lee, Esquire-governor of the Commonwealth of VA hath here unto set his Hand and caused the before seal of the Commonwealth to be affixed at Richmond on 3/29/17892 and of the Commonwealth the Sixteenth. (Transcribed by Wanda Counsil)

2/17/1816 - Ruthie Riggins of Orange Co sold Bobbie Council 100 acres of land for $230. (The Councils from VA to NC, The Robert Council Line, by Irma Ragan Holland, 1978)

Slaves of Bobbie Council were Aunt Esther and Uncle Wiley Council who remained with the family many years after the Civil War was over. Wiley was b. 11/9/1834 and lived to be more than 100 years of age. (The Councils from VA to NC, The Robert Council Line, by Irma Ragan Holland, 1978)

Bobbie Council was a man of small statue and had distinctive blue-violet eyes set deep in his brows. (The Councils from VA to NC, The Robert Council Line, by Irma Ragan Holland, 1978)

Private User
5/8/2017 at 8:18 PM

It's bad manners, not to mention possibly illegal, to do a full-on copy-paste from somebody else's website. You can quote up to a paragraph or so, but don't overdo it.

5/8/2017 at 8:22 PM

Dear Maven; Thanks for the input. I haven't been researching this generation of the Councils very long. I am a descendant in this line:
Council., John Hodges
1621 - 1699
Council, 'Planter' John Hodges
1643 - 1699
Council, Lucy
1676 - 1744
Wooten, Hatter William
1710 - 1792
Wooten, Amos, Sr
1745 - 1811
Wooten, Winifred
1787 - 1865
Cobb, Lucinda
b.1821
Thigpen, John Allen
1847 - 1914
Thigpen, Edward Alvin
1893 - 1970
Thigpen, Hubert Harold
b.1935
Thigpen, Barbara Kim
b.1958

5/8/2017 at 8:29 PM

I thought these were just like back office notes. I didn't paste that page on a profile. But; thanks for the tip. I usually only save these things to my own notes. I thought it was alright if the link was included. So, I can only paste the link, maybe? It seemed like very old information & I wouldn't try to change the wording of such, lest authenticity be compromised. It wasn't my work. I will be more careful. I'm no author; only a scholar in several subjects. I don't make any money, but only do online volunteer work.

Private User
5/8/2017 at 8:35 PM

Well, up to a paragraph or two of *directly relevant* information. Walls of Text about descendants to the nth generation is pushing it.

5/9/2017 at 12:34 AM

So I found the http://bjhughes.org/coundoc.html the best compilation "out there" except for one thing: the TWO Lucy Council's. I believe I got it right and everyone else got it wrong, which makes me very, very nervous. :).

Everyone and their brother from New Jersey to New Hampshire to Virginia claims kinship to Sir Francis Drake. He had no kids and you hit Drakes all over Dorset, so really ... Wait for more of them to get DNA tested. IMO.

5/9/2017 at 8:52 PM

There is no proof that Mrs. Vick was named Lucy, is there? Otherwise, "Unknown Council" would be better.

-----

Do we have any proof that these Councils were from Devon, or is that a red herring coming from the purported link to Sir Francis Drake?

Looks like there were Drakes in Somerset who came to Isle of Wight.

These Drakes were neighbors of Hodges Council in Virginia:

John Drake patented land in Isle of Wight in 1682 but forfeited it by 1690, the year that the tract was regranted to one William Fowler. The Parnell mentioned here is his brother in-law:

Land Grant in Patent Book 7 page 182, dated September 22, 1682, 100 acres of land on the north west side of Currawaugh Swamp in Isle of Wight County, beginning at the mouth of a Branch&nbsp; that devides one hundred nighty eight to line in Hogges Councills line then by his line north west eighty to red oaks to Parnells corner and by Parnells lines north north left one hundred to red oaks at mark free of Col. Bridgers land and for by Col. Bridgers said swamp forth twenty ....&nbsp; for the transportation of two persons.

http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&amp;db=jmljr...

John's headright was claimed by both Hodges Council and Colonel Arthur Smith.

http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&amp;db=bfulg...

Here he is in the Geni tree--I've added these links but no notes yet, as I'm just learning about all this.

John Drake

Let's look into the Somerset Drakes, and let's at least not assume a Devon origin for the Councils without proof. Maybe we've never proven Hodges Council's parents because we were looking in the wrong place.

5/10/2017 at 12:58 PM

Proof of Somerset origins at Ancestry? Can someone check, please? I don't have an Ancestry account.

The Council DNA Project has linked the Isle of Wight Councils to Wedmore, Somerset.

Chart:

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/councilcounsell/default.aspx?s...

News and background, family trees:

https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/council-counsell/about/news

The above link says the following:

"The COUNSELL family baptism, marriage, and burial records are now available at Ancestry.com. An alternative traditional line is available in Hodges Councill and his Descendants, Judson Councill, 1937"

***Would someone with an Ancestry account please look into this? Thanks in advance!***

Regarding Devon origins:

BJ Hughes and other sites all seem to give this as the only source for a Devon connection:

Judson Councill; Hodges Councill of Virginia and Descendants, p. 18, 59

Does anyone have this book, and does it cite any sources? Even a dodgy visitation?

I've been leaving some long comments, so to sum up:

* Devon origin for the Councils is not proven, unless there is something solid in the Judson Councill book. DNA evidence suggests Somerset. There might be PROOF for Somerset at Ancestry--needs looking into.

* Lucy Council Vick--her identity is not documented; so it should be noted that we are ~assuming~ she was a Council and we have no proof of her given name.

5/10/2017 at 2:31 PM

I changed it to Lucy? to cope with the persistent confusion of aunt / niece.

Vicks Family Association quote:

" His wife at that time is not known, but she may have been Lucy, daughter of Hodges Council, who was neighbor to Joseph. This relationship is implied in the deed of land from Hodges Council dated August 9, 1692, to Lucy Vick, daughter of Joseph Vick (Isle of Wight County, VA, Will and Deed Book, p. 480)."

But she could not have been Lucy, daughter of Hodges Council, the age is wrong and she was married to & having children with William Wooten at the same time ?? was married to / having children with Joseph Vick. But the Vicks believe she may have been Lucy, based on the daughter's name. That leaves the ?? daughter of JOHN Council, father of Hodges Council.

5/10/2017 at 3:04 PM

Decent article on Wikitree but overlooks the daughter of John Council / sister of Hodges Council. I raise eyebrows at "the Lucy Vicks was a god daughter" theory to explain the inheritance. Council wasn't that wealthy and had other children.

5/10/2017 at 4:07 PM

God-daughter doesn't make sense to me, either. I suspect she was a Council or from a closely-related family.

We still haven't proved John Council (mwahaha!), but I'm working on it....

I'm posting a query to the Isle of Wight Facebook group right now. Hopefully someone is familiar with the specific Council records referred to on the Council DNA Project Background page. And hopefully someone has the Descendants of Hodges Councill book as well, so that we can see what is really in there.

I've been looking into my Drake lead as well....

The John Drake who was Hodges Council's headright and neighbor turns out to have come to Virginia with a ten-year indenture--the son of a Somerset serge-maker--so if we do have a Council-Drake connection, it may not be what we were hoping for!

5/10/2017 at 7:42 PM

https://books.google.com/books?id=X_MdBECyLsYC&amp;pg=PA43&amp;lpg=...

Look on page 43 & 44 of Lumberton, by William Council [even though it is a novel, these may prove to be helpful clues] Chapter 4; Lumber Ridge: I; Robert Council, 2cd Lieutenant, 1st North Carolina Regiment to his excellency The commander in Chief George Washington, do acknowledge the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, to be Free, Independent, and Sovereign states... [skip to last paragraph] ...Robert had been very proud of his name and heritage, and rightly so. His family had come to the New World with his 2cd great grandfather John Council in 1699. John was married to Elizabeth Drake the great grand niece of Sir Francis Drake. Robert's great grandfather, Hodges Council, was the Justice of the original "Isle of Wight", Virginia and his grandfather, John Council, was an advisor to Sir Richard Everhard, then Governor of Virginia. John and his wife Josie Willis were the first Councils to move to Bladen County, North Carolina. Robert's father, Arthur Council inherited the lands of his father, along with the esteemed name which were then handed down to Robert.

Private User
5/10/2017 at 11:43 PM

People puffing up their ancestry is not a recent phenomenon, and it got a huge boost in Colonial and post-Colonial America, where everybody who was nobody wanted to be Somebody, or at least descended from Somebody. That's why *all* American Drakes are "related to Sir Francis Drake", *all* American Hawkinses are "related to" the Admirals, and anybody who can cobble up any pretense of a connection to Royal ancestry eagerly does so. (Yes I'm being very snarky again.)

5/11/2017 at 12:27 PM

And all the Lees of the southern US are said to connect to Robert E. Lee (the Lee DNA Project has demonstrated that there are many, many unrelated Lee families), and all Byrds claim to be from the "Westover" family (the DNA Project has debunked more than one such claim).

5/11/2017 at 1:19 PM

Somerset baptism record for Hedges Counsell, child of Xpian and John, on July 26, 1635.

The DNA Project shows Hodges Council as the son of John and Christian Councill, b. B. 1635, Wells, St. Cuthbert, Somerset, England.

Could this be our guy?

https://www.ancestry.com/sharing/10788344?h=0c9d7e&amp;utm_campaign...

5/11/2017 at 1:29 PM

Sister Priscilla

http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&amp;db=SomersetP...

John Counsell
 in the Somerset, England, Church of England Baptisms, Marriages, and Burials, 1531-1812
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Name: John Counsell
Gender: Male
Spouse: Xpian Counsell
Child: Priscilla Counsell
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Source Citation
Somerset Heritage Service; Taunton, Somerset, England; Somerset Parish Records, 1538-1914; Reference Number: D\P\w.st.c/2/1/1

5/11/2017 at 1:29 PM

This could be his father, if the DNA Project folks are right about a 1613 birth date, but you have to be oh-so-careful about men named John:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NYGJ-S9N

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