A confusion of Mary Ann Matthews!

Started by Erica Howton on Monday, March 27, 2017
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3/27/2017 at 7:59 PM

"Mary Ann Matthews" is a profile that shows up on Geni, and she seems to wander all over, not know who her parents were, and insist on being married to a Samuel Matthews.

I think that most of these profiles are garbled genealogy, and if we follow the Master Profiles on Geni, we'll un-confuse ourselves.

This is the "real" Mary Ann Matthews, as best I understand it.

Sarah Mathews

You'll notice her name is Sarah. That is recent archaeological evidence from excavations at the Jamestown Colony (exciting stuff, and ongoing). It's not 100% certain, but her silverware looks to have been embossed with an S and not an M.

She was the daughter of Sir Thomas Hinton and his 1st wife, Catherine Palmer. Which explains "Mary Ann's" genealogical popularity, as Catherine was the daughter of a known Tudor era woman, Elizabeth Bromley - a god daughter of Queen Elizabeth.

According to Sir Thomas' Member of Parliament biography (you can read it here: http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1604-1629/member/hi...), they had:

6s. (1 d.v.p.) 1da. d.v.p.;4

4. Wilts. RO, 735/2, ff. 2v, 7, 8, 13; W. Munk, Roll of Roy. Coll. of Physicians, i. 329-31.

d.v.p. means died without issue, so I'm not sure I understand why all the fuss about his daughter, then. Sir Thomas left no will: "No will has been found, and the inquisition into his estate was not taken until 1639." 32

32. C142/580/95 (in case anyone wants to get ambitious and track down that document)

His biography also notes:

"Hinton’s children developed close ties with Virginia: two sons emigrated there; and his daughter married Samuel Matthews, the colony’s governor in the 1650s; ...."

... and that's where the excitement begins.

Because that's the wrong Samuel Matthews. The Gov of the Virginia colony was the son of a man we call Capt. Samuel Mathews, of "Denbigh"

And this is where it gets even more confused, because The Governor's father was first married to a many married woman named Frances Greville, Frances Mathews -- and her children were attributed to the Hinton wife.

(continued)

3/27/2017 at 8:05 PM

(carrying on)

So, for instance, an otherwise excellent Virginia genealogist (and pretty good novelist), James Branch Cabell, asserts in "The Majors And Their Marriages". 2017. Google Books. Accessed March 28 2017. https://books.google.com/books?id=puQ1AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA122&lpg...

"Piersey remarried in 1625, his second wife being Frances, daughter to Sir Thomas Hinton, and widow of Nathaniel West, Lord Delaware's brother."

That's a mixup. Frances was not Hinton, she was Greville. And this Samuel Mathews survived Frances, and married Sarah. There were no children, as her father's biography correctly notes.

So now we have three names being mixed into the same woman - Mary, Sarah, Frances.

I have no idea where the Ann comes from. There were almost no middle names in England and its in this period.

So we now know who the only daughter of Sir Thomas Hinton was. That means any other daughter attached to his profile is in the wrong place and not the wife of that Samuel Matthews of the Virginia colony, father of the Governor.

In the next post I will list the profiles I am detaching from Sir Thomas.

3/27/2017 at 8:27 PM

All I know about this 'Mary' Mathews is that she was the wife of Samuel 'Tamsen' Matthews, of Oyster River

Notes in his profile say:

BIOGRAPHY: Was in the group who came to New England in 1631 with Capt John Mason. In 1637 leased land at Muskito Hall at Oyster River, now known as Newcastle, NH (History of the Town of Durham, p. 263). Living in Portsmouth, NH 1631, Exter, NH 1639-46.

----

So this man was a New England colonist. Nothing to do with the Governor of the Virginia Colony or his father.

----

I notice he has a daughter named Cicely Montague but that's also an error, because she shows a husband of Peter Montague, who needs to be merged into the Master Profile for him.

Peter Montague and Cecily Matthews were not the parents of Mary Ball's father so I'm disconnecting that also.

3/27/2017 at 9:00 PM

There is also this "Mary Ann Matthews"

Ann Llewellyn married to John Price, Ancient Planter

The profile overview needs cleanup and more research needed for her and her husband John Price, Ancient Planter and their children.

She was not the daughter of Samuel Matthew who died at the age 18 without children.

She was not the daughter of 'Mary' Mathews who, as we know, was married to a colonist of Oyster Bay in the current day state of New Hampshire.

3/27/2017 at 9:11 PM
3/27/2017 at 9:13 PM

OH MY GOD PLEASE read and stop disconnecting everyone

Samuel Matthews

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Captain Samuel Matthews (c. 1580 – November 30, 1657) was a Virginia planter, and the father of Governor Samuel Mathews.

Born in England, Mathews was the first of the family to emigrate from England to Virginia, arriving at Jamestown by 1619. He established a plantation, "Mathews Manor", later known as Denbigh, which was located on the north side of the James River at Blunt Point, the confluence of the Warwick and the James rivers in the area which later became Warwick County, Virginia (and which is now within the city limits of Newport News).

He eventually had several other land holdings, including one near Henricus and another at Old Point Comfort. Known as Colonel Mathews, the elder Samuel became one of the most prominent men in the colony. By 1621 he was a member of the Governor's Council and was actively involved in conflicts with the Native Americans. In 1635, he was one of the leaders of the popular mutiny that ousted Royal Governor Sir John Harvey. In the spring of 1637 Mathews and three others were sent home to England to stand trial for treason in the Court of Star Chamber, but the charges were eventually dropped and Mathews returned to Virginia in 1639.[1] Upon returning to England, the elder Mathews was eventually cleared of any charges; upon returning to Virginia, he resumed service on the Governor's Council until 1644.[2]

Frances Grevill was one of four women who arrived at Jamestown from Bristol, England in September 1620 aboard the ship, Supply. She was first married to Captain Nathaniel West, brother of Thomas West, the third Lord Delaware, who had been governor of Virginia beginning in 1610. After West's death several years later, Grevill married Abraham Peirsey, a wealthy man who had purchased Sir George Yeardley's Flowerdew Hundred Plantation after his death. Peirsey died several years later. Twice widowed, but with considerable legacies, she next married Samuel Mathews.

They had two sons Samuel, and Francis (1632–1673). Francis, a tobacco planter had a large estate of some two thousand acres in Northumberland County.

Mathews served in London as the Colony's representative in handling disputes, particularly in the matter of establishing the border with Maryland.[3] Much of his influence has been attributed to his second marriage to the daughter of Sir Thomas Hinton whose son was a gentleman of the king's Privy Chamber.[1] Mathews died in London, England on November 30, 1657.

As a member of the House of Burgesses, Matthews was viewed as an "honest, energetic and faithful servant of the Colony" whose death was "universally lamented."[4]

Mathews Manor[edit]

Captain Mathews built the Manor around 1626.[5] The site of Mathews Manor, located within the independent city of Newport News, Virginia, was the subject of an archeological study led by Colonial Williamsburg's Ivor Noel Hume in the 1960s, and was placed on the National Park Service's National Register of Historic Places.[6]

See also[edit]
Colony of Virginia
Governor's Palace
List of colonial governors of Virginia
History of Virginia

3/27/2017 at 9:15 PM

I've been reading these for 7 years. :)

The Wikipedia article is incomplete. He had a second wife who was the daughter of Sir Thomas Hinton. There were no children of the second marriage.

3/27/2017 at 9:20 PM

Here is a good source about Francis:

"History Of The Town Of Durham, New Hampshire : (Oyster River Plantation) With Genealogical Notes". 2017. Archive.Org. Accessed March 28 2017. https://archive.org/stream/historyoftownofd02stac#page/262/mode/2up

3/27/2017 at 9:23 PM

"notice he has a daughter named Cicely Montague but that's also an error, because she shows a husband of Peter Montague "
It was not an Error at all

I have been MERGING profiles of the SAME PERSONS all night and you have been undoing what I do . Many others have addedthese same profiles to the tree for years ... STOP disconnecting their parents . You obviously haven't got a clue about history and use stupid information as proof.

3/27/2017 at 9:39 PM

Samuel Matthews, of Oyster River IS Lt. Col. Samuel Mathews

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Mathews

Lt. Col. Samuel Mathews[1] (1630–1660), Commonwealth Governor of Virginia,[2][3] of Warwick County in the English Colony of Virginia, was a member of the House of Burgesses, the Governor's Council, and served as Commonwealth Governor of Virginia from 1656 until he died in office in January, 1660 (1659 A.S.). There was no Royal Governorship at the time of the "Protectorate", and the Governor technically answered to the Cromwellian Parliament, although Royalist sentiment was prevalent in the colony of Virginia at this time. The former Royalist governor Berkeley arrived to replace him March 13, 1660.

3/27/2017 at 9:44 PM

http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1604-1629/member/hi...

Family and Education

b. 1573/4, 1st s. of Anthony Hinton of Earlscott, Wanborough, Wilts. and Martha, da. of John Warneford of Sevenhampton, Wilts.1 educ. Queen’s, Oxf. 1591, aged 17.2 m. (1) 1595 (with £1,000),3 Catherine (bur. 11 Oct. 1609), da. of William Palmer of Parham, Suss., 6s. (1 d.v.p.) 1da. d.v.p.;4 (2) 1 Oct. 1622, Mary (bur. 18 Apr. 1632),5 da. of Peter Tryon, merchant of London,6 wid. of Sir Sebastian Harvey, Ironmonger and alderman of Lime Street, London,7 s.p. suc. fa. 1598;8 kntd. 1 July 1619.9 d. 1 Feb. 1635.10 sig. Tho[mas] Hinton.

Offices Held

Commr. maimed soldiers, Wilts. 1608,11 capt., militia ft. 1608-at least 1611;12 sheriff, Berks. 1612-13;13 j.p. Wilts. 1614-d.;14 commr. oyer and terminer, Devon, Dorset, Hants, Som., Wilts. 1616-25,15 Cornw. 1618-25.16

Biography

Hinton’s family had owned property in Swindon, Wiltshire since the thirteenth century and had purchased lands in Wanborough and neighbouring Oxfordshire parishes in the 1540s.17 Hinton himself initially settled at Wanborough, securing a generous dowry from his first wife before inheriting the bulk of the family’s substantial estates in 1598.18 These included lands in Bourton, Oxfordshire, the home of his cousin Thomas Hinton, who married the sister of Lawrence Tanfield*, chief baron of the Exchequer.19 Using the income derived from these properties, rated at a respectable £20 in the subsidy rolls, he purchased Chilton Park, a 615-acre estate on the Wiltshire-Berkshire border.20 However, he did not acquire significant local office until 1608, when Edward Seymour, 1st earl of Hertford, appointed him a captain of foot in Sir William Button’s* militia regiment. Considering this position onerous, Hinton petitioned Hertford for relief ‘in regard of my want of experience in such employments’, and added that he was already serving on a county committee concerning maimed soldiers, and that ‘some necessary occasions are like to cause me to live in London when my absence will either cause the neglect of my duty or my presence procure me much inconvenience’. He had presumably taken lodgings in London by July 1611, when Hertford condemned the ‘defect and want in you of such supplements as belong to every captain having charge of men’.21 By this point Hinton and other leading gentry had become aggrieved at Hertford’s appointment of his servant Josias Kirton as muster-master. In September Hinton proposed to delay the musters until after the harvest, but by the following month he was refusing to contribute towards the muster-master’s wages unless Kirton’s appointment was approved by the whole county.22 Hinton was pricked as sheriff for Berkshire in the following year, and finally appointed to the Wiltshire magistracy in 1614.

In November 1616 Hinton was accused of fraudulently registering a recognizance for £2,000 at the Statute Office, and of then attempting to mortgage it at a goldsmith’s for £5,000. His alleged confederate, Thomas Jolliffe, was committed to the Fleet, but it has not been established what action, if any, was taken against Hinton himself.23 Legal proceedings certainly followed from his marriage in 1622 to Lady Mary Harvey, whose previous husband, Sir Sebastian Harvey, had left her a fortune estimated at £40,000.24 Numerous suits resulted from Hinton’s attempts to secure repayment of loans Harvey had made over the previous 30 years, and from his efforts to exploit more fully the rental income from Harvey’s estates in Shropshire, Gloucestershire and Worcestershire.25 Hinton’s principal legal concerns during the 1620s, however, were to defend his wife’s goods against claims made by Harvey’s daughter Mary and her husband John Popham*, and in countering charges that he had forged a number of leases depriving the young couple of the profits of an estate settled on them at their marriage in May 1621.26

Elected for Downton in December 1620, despite holding no property in south Wiltshire, Hinton presumably owed his seat to the borough’s principal patron, William Herbert, 3rd earl of Pembroke. In the Commons Hinton made no recorded speeches, but was named to 11 bill committees. Some of these involved legal technicalities such as alienations (19 Mar.), local lawsuits (20 Mar.) and forcible entries (24 March). His Wiltshire estate and London interests may explain his nomination to committees for bills dealing with the sale of Wiltshire lands belonging to the debtor Sir Thomas Redferne (15 Mar.) and the relief of London’s poor (2 May). Miscellaneous committees to which he was appointed concerned bills to prevent the export of ordnance (26 Mar.), the use of gold and silver in apparel (21 Apr.) and the estate of the fraudulent scrivener Thomas Frith (26 May).27 On 2 June he was one of the 24 Members selected to inform the king that both Houses preferred the option of an adjournment to an extension of the sitting.28 After the session reconvened in the autumn, he was named to a committee for a bill to convey criminals to houses of correction (22 Nov.). He was also a member of the committee for a bill to allow ministers to lease lands on behalf of their dependants (22, 23 November).29

Hinton was re-elected for Ludgershall in May 1625, probably on the strength of his local status, as he had no direct connection with the borough. He made no known contribution to the work of the House. He may have stood for Ludgershall again in 1626, but if so, he was defeated by Sir William Walter*. He certainly stood at the subsequent election which was called after the Commons voided both initial returns for the second seat. However, although he was returned on 18 Mar. 1626, a rival group of electors submitted a separate indenture for Sir Thomas Jay*, and the dispute remained unresolved at the dissolution in June.30 Hinton is not known to have contested the seat against Jay in 1628.

Hinton died on 1 Feb. 1635 and was initially buried next to Lady Mary at Wanborough before being re-interred alongside his first wife, Catherine, at Chilton Foliat.31 No will has been found, and the inquisition into his estate was not taken until 1639.32 Hinton’s children developed close ties with Virginia: two sons emigrated there; """""""""""""and his daughter married Samuel Matthews, the colony’s governor in the 1650s"""""""""""; while his eldest son, Anthony, belonged to the Virginia Company and may briefly have been a planter in Barbados.33 A fourth son, John, became physician to Henrietta Maria.34 None of Hinton’s descendants sat in Parliament.

3/27/2017 at 9:49 PM

Erica Wikipedia is NOT the only place to get information

Thomas Hinton https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Hinton

same link as I have just posted above http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1604-1629/member/hi... HINTON, Sir Thomas (1573/4-1635), of Chilton Park, Chilton Foliat, Wilts.

3/27/2017 at 9:50 PM

Dorothy, it's OK not to do a full data dump, the link to the article is good enough. :)

What I take away is that the History of Parliament biographer did not know or did not care to share the name of Sir Thomas's only daughter, and mixed up Samuel Matthews with his son, the Gov. Samuel Matthews.

In any event, this daughter of Sir Thomas was not a "different" Matthews woman, located at a different location and with very different birth and death dates.

3/27/2017 at 9:55 PM

Frances Grevill West Peirsey Mathews IS Francis Matthews, of Oyster River

All you had to do was merge what I requested earlier tonight rather than disconnect things making this harder than it needs to be.

3/27/2017 at 9:58 PM

In regards to Andrew Price, who married "Mary Ann Matthews", so far I am finding that it's a very confused tree

https://www.ancestry.com/boards/thread.aspx?mv=flat&m=9319&...

"The book seems to be very close on as the age of John, as in 1620, he would have been 36. However, for his wife Mary there is a big difference. I find her date of birth as 1584 which would have made her the same age of John, 36. The book lists her as being 21 when they arrived in Virginia. His wife is called Ann Mathewes and the Book states that, “a young girl of about seventeen winters, came over on the ship Francis Bonaventure.” Not 21 years old or 36 years old. It seems to confuse the name of his first wife Mary and second wife Ann on several occasions. Also, where she died is a mystery to me! Mary Ann Mathews, spelling of the last name is different also, was born in 1584 and died in 1666, making her 82 when she died in Boston not Virginia."

-----

So we have very garbled records on line.

Not to mention that the death date & location for Andrew Price is impossible, as Charles City did not exist in 1610.

----
Does anyone have a good source like Adventures of Purse and Person?

3/27/2017 at 10:08 PM

"In any event, this daughter of Sir Thomas was not a "different" Matthews woman, located at a different location and with very different birth and death dates "

Mathews Manor
Captain Mathews built the Manor around 1626.[5] The site of Mathews Manor, located within the independent city of Newport News, Virginia, was the subject of an archeological study led by Colonial Williamsburg's Ivor Noel Hume in the 1960s, and was placed on the National Park Service's National Register of Historic Places

I am building my tree on Ancestry .com and I get many hints , birth records , mirage records etc... for instance from "Source Citation for Wales, Select Births and Baptisms, 1541-1907"

Name
Mary Ann Mathews
Birth 1584 • Cowes, Isle of Wight, , England
Death 15 MAY 1666 • Boston, Suffolk, Massachusetts, USA
Gender
Female

3/27/2017 at 10:12 PM

Andrew Price

1585–1610

Birth 1585 • Montgomery, Montgomeryshire, , Wales

Death 1610 • Jamestown Colony, Neck Land, Charles City, Virginia, United States

http://www.familypursuit.com/genealogy/price_andrew/andrew-price-b....

3/27/2017 at 10:16 PM

http://www.mytrees.com/ancestry-family/sc002441-334-1275/Andrew-Pri...

Male Child: Andrew Price Born 1585 in Wales
Died 1608 in Virginia

Click the "Born", "Died",
and "Married" links
for family tree detail.

Parents Married: ...1582 at ...


Father:
Born

Died


Richard Price

...1555 at ...

...1638 at ...

Mother:
Born

Died


Ursula Middleton

...1560 at ...

...1637 at ...


Siblings

Brothers:

Capt John Price - Born ...1584 at ...

Andrew Price - Born ...1585 at ...

Sisters:

Notes

AUTH Ancestry.com
TITL Public Member Trees
PUBL Name: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc.; Location: Provo, UT,
USA; Date: 2006;
REPO @R1@
PAGE Database online.
DATA
TEXT Record for Richard Price
AUTH Ancestry.com
TITL Public Member Trees
PUBL Name: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc.; Location: Provo, UT,
USA; Date: 2006;
REPO @R1@
PAGE Database online.
DATA
TEXT Record for Richard Price
AUTH Ancestry.com
TITL Public Member Trees
PUBL Name: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc.; Location: Provo, UT,
USA; Date: 2006;
REPO @R1@
PAGE Database online.
DATA
TEXT Record for Richard Price

3/27/2017 at 10:27 PM

Yes, I am familiar with that record for Andrew Price from on line trees. I have no idea where it comes from, do you?

There are some good reference books and periodicals for the first colonists to Virginia (and to New Hampshire). I already suggested Adventures of Purse and Person as a place to look for him. I don't need references to other online trees.

3/27/2017 at 10:31 PM

BTW you do know that there were 2 "Samuel Mathews. "

One was Lt. Col. Samuel Mathews.JR (1630–1660),

his father Samuel Mathews.SR(c. 1580 – November 30, 1657

You say Mary Ann Mathews, spelling of the last name is different also, was born in 1584 and died in 1666, making her 82 when she died in Boston not Virginia."

Where did you get that information from that she died in Boston ?

on her profile read in the "about me"

ID: I12237 •Name: Mary Ann Matthews 1 2 3 4 5 •Sex: F •Birth: Hampshire 1600 in Cowes, Isle of Wight, England 6 •Probate: 15 MAY 1666 Essex, England •Immigration: on the ship Francis Bonaventure AUG 1620 Virginia, USA 7 8 •Death: BEF 15 MAY 1666 in Henrico Co, Virginia, USA 1 •Death: BEF 15 MAY 1666 in Virginia, USA 9 •Name: Ann Mathews 7 •Name: Anne 8 •Birth: 1584 3 •Birth: ABT 1600 1 •Birth: ABT 1602 10 8 •Birth: 1603 9 •Death: BEF MAY 1666 in Neck of Land, Henrico, Virginia, USA 6 •Death: BEF 15 MAY 1666 3 •Birth: 1576 in Isle of Wight, England 5 •Note: [Virginia Families.ged] .......

3/27/2017 at 10:38 PM

the boston info is from here http://www.familypursuit.com/genealogy/price_mary/mary-ann-mathews-...

note= this is just another tree NOT valid proof of her birth or death

Children of Mary Ann Mathews Price*

Children with Andrew Price* b. 1585
Montgomery, Montgomeryshire, Wales d. 1610
Jamestown Colony, Neck Land, Charles City, Virginia, United States

Thomas Price* b. 1610
Wales or Isle of Wight, England d. 23 AUG 1701
Calvert, Maryland, United States

Edward Price b. 1608
ENGLAND d.

3/27/2017 at 10:49 PM

Yes, I will be cleaning up the profile overview. It got sloppy because of the confusions of Mary Ann Mathews profiles on the internet.

3/27/2017 at 10:50 PM

This is my husbands tree I just added Andrew Price and Mary Ann Mathews from what was on the geni tree and from Ancestry.com hints
So my only valid information I can get is from Andrew Price and Mary Ann Mathews son

U.S. and International Marriage Records, 1560-1900

View Record

Name
Thomas Price

Gender
Male

Birth Year
1610

Spouse Name
Elizabeth Phillips

Spouse Birth Year
1612

Marriage Year
1672

Number Pages
1

Household Members

Name

Age

Elizabeth Phillips
Thomas Price

3/27/2017 at 10:52 PM

re: Frances Grevill West Peirsey Mathews IS Francis Matthews, of Oyster River

With all due respect, they are very different people.

To start with, Frances (Grevill) West, then Peirsey, lastly Mathews was a woman. She came to the Virginia Colony. She's in history books.

Francis Matthews, of Oyster Bay, New Hampshire, was a man. His wife's name was Thomasine Channon. He is also in history books, here's one example:

"History of the town of Durham, New Hampshire"
https://archive.org/stream/historyoftownofd02stac#page/263/mode/1up

3/27/2017 at 10:55 PM

The Thomas Price record may or may not be good, the message board people in post https://www.ancestry.com/boards/thread.aspx?mv=flat&m=9319&... were skeptical that Thomas was the son of Andrew.

Is that the area of most interest to you? That's good to know, because I can try and find out more about Thomas Price, focus on that.

3/27/2017 at 10:58 PM

I am assuming Mary Ann Mathews was born about 1584 but she could be born earlier

I got this hint from Family Data Collection - Deaths

Name:
Anne Matthews

Death Date:
May 1666

City:
Neck Land

County:
Henrico Co

State:
VA

Country:
USA

Mary Ann Matthews is really called "Anne Matthews"

3/27/2017 at 10:59 PM
3/27/2017 at 11:02 PM

Many other sites list Thomas Price as the son of Andrew Price

3/27/2017 at 11:03 PM

I don't know. Could be.

What was a better record is this one about his "brother" From Hotten's List of Immigrants (which is a book with issues)

http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=pili354&a...

John Price in the U.S. and Canada, Passenger and Immigration Lists Index, 1500s-1900s

Name: John Price
Birth Year: abt 1584
Arrival Year: 1624
Arrival Place: Virginia
Age: 40
Family Members: Wife Ann 21; Child Mary 3 mos

----

Try that database for Andrew Price and for Thomas Price.

3/27/2017 at 11:06 PM

his mother is listed as Mary Ann Mathews (1630-1666) on other trees

another hint I got was from Wales, Select Births and Baptisms, 1541-1907

Name
Andrew Price

Gender
Male

Household Members

Name

Age

Mary
Andrew Price
John Andrew

for John Price

Virginia, Compiled Census and Census Substitutes Index, 1607-1890

Name
John Price

State
VA

County
Neck of Land

Township
Virginia Pioneer

Year
1624

Database
VA Early Census Index

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