war experiences of Karelians

My grandparents came in Finland ca. 1920-1930 from Vienna-Karelia as a refugees and they left families and love-ones there. My grandmother came into Kyminlinna with two children and got no husband at all. And my grandfather was an escaped prisoner and his whole family was lost within war and crises. He got four or six children and wife and no-one knows their destiny.
Grandparents met eachother in Kymilinna (Kotka) refugee-camp and begun a new life together. They got 4 children, which all was born in Kyminlinna.
And so started our story as a family.
Three children were evaucuated in Sweden during second world war and two of them styed perminately in Sweden.
Many separations was happened. Hearthbreaking sorrows and mysery.
This is our familystory, but is not written as a book.

Hey. All Finns were evacuated and people who wanted to stay in Soviet flight. Stalin banished them to Siberia. Stalin said that the man who deceives native country, is a dog.

Timo Kallioniemi: K Brigade, Tribal Warriors in the Continuation War. Oulu: North, 1992.
Pentti Edge: stateless, Tribal Warriors in the Continuation War 1941-1944. Helsinki: WSOY, 1991.
Pekka Mutanen: crackdown by soldiers. Sweden: The thought-Books, 1999.
Eino Hanski: Tribe Battalion. Stockholm: Finn-Book, 1982.

A few clarifying points on your question.
1) Karelians didnt flee "to Finland", but inside Finland from East Finland to West of the same country. In 1939 and 1944.
2) Some families had more distant relatives on the other side of the 1917-1939 border in Karelian families, but intermarriage to Russians to my understanding was quite rare as area (meaning current areas of Rep of Karelia) was primarily Karelian anyway. Border had been closed in 1920s so there was no free coming and going or marrying around.
3) But of course in some families some people with sympathies for the Communist regime, had opted for a life in the Soviet Union in 1920s and 1930s and moved there. But those people were not "torn in between" - they had consciously chosen to side with the USSR as they had moved there before the war. They were used in spreading Finnish language propaganda during the war.
4) Those about 20 civilian Karelians who didnt manage to flee West in 1939 from Suojarvi's Hyrsyla were taken to a prison / labour camp in Interposolka in Soviet Karelia where there were also some American Finns and Karelians.
5) Karelian language in border regions in current Rep of Karelia has many loan words from Russian and a lot of older people were fluent in Russian. Majority there was Orthodox. This however doesnt mean they were "Russian" as such - in fact in many areas there it was exactly these Karelian speaking Orthodox people who set up Finnish schools and were quite consciously choosing Finnishness as their identity - for example by changing their Russian surnames to Finnish ones. So you need to be quite careful in this distinction.

Thank you, Private User for that detailed explanation.

Do we know what happened to those 20 civilians?

I was looking for an answer for Alex´s quetation. There was more than 20 civil prisoners. They were returned after the war, if they survived.

Hyrsylän mutka talvisodassa[muokkaa | muokkaa wikitekstiä]
Talvisodan sytyttyä jäi Hyrsylästä ja muista Suojärven pitäjän kylistä siviiliväestöä hyökkäävien neuvostojoukkojen vangiksi. Nämä kylien siviiliasukkaat vietiin keskitysleirille Interposolkan kylään Petroskoin eteläpuolelle ja Kaimaojan leirille Kontupohjan länsipuolelle. Yhteensä Suojärven rajakylistä jäi runsaat 1700 siviilivankia, joista vajaa puolet Hyrsylän mutkan kylistä. Tarkat luvut löytyvät kirjasta "Tasavallan panttivangit". Usein puhutaan virheellisesti vain Hyrsylän mutkan alueelta jääneistä siviilisotavangeista, vaikka muista Suojärven kylistä jäi siviilisotavankeja enemmän.

Moskovan rauhan ehtojen mukaisen vankienpalautuksen jälkeen 25. toukokuuta 1940 voitiin todeta, että siviilisotavangeista oli kuollut leiriaikana 102 henkeä. Nämä siviiliuhrit on luetteloitu Nurmeksen Bomban talon yhteydessä olevan tsasounan edustalla olevaan kivipaateen. Nuorimmat uhrit olivat ainoastaan muutaman viikon ikäisiä, vanhimmat yli 80-vuotiaita. Suojärven lauluemo Ogoi Määränen kuoli Helsingissä sotavankien karanteenileirillä 3. kesäkuuta 82-vuotiaana.

Over 1700 civil prisoners of which 102 died.

One of karelianer from Hyrsylanmutka Suojarvi, Moiseinvaara village living still in Finland y 2016 told me that He was 9 - 11 year old boy and was in 2 different prison abouth half year in Sovjet- Karelia. Now a days He has got 15 % war- invalidite papers and war "soldat" pension from Finland. There was abouth 25 persons in prison and some one of them died even in the train, when they was going back to Finland. They was hungry, because not much eatings. I do not remember the name of book of this people, it is written abouth 1990 year in Finland a book of them. In Helsinki Seurasaari in out-side museum there is a carelian- house, where He Arvi Makkonen was living when He was 5 y old child , In this house was living 5 familes and their parents, Spiridon Makkonen was grand- father name . First floor of house was living animals horses, lamms, pork, cows , chickens, etc. Second for was living the people.

Thanks for all interesting stories and important clarifications!

So ethnic Karelians living in USSR in the 20s-30s were never part of the Red Army?

(By the way Eija, I see that we are related, my father is your 6th cousin)

Eija Heikkinen, my mother was also born in Kyminlinna pakolaisleiri, in 1936. Her sister was also born there a few years earlier. Their family came from Suojärvi and Aunuksen Karjala. What do you know about the life at Kyminlinna?

Sofie,

There is a book called 'Vallien sisällä, vallien ulkopuolella' that would give you a insight for the life 'inside the walls'. It's based on life experiences of Timo Tervonen who was one of the child residents in Kyminlinna.

Not sure if it has been translated to any other languages.

You can ask more information about it from:

toimisto@karjalansivistysseura.fi
Subject: RE: VS: Vallien sisällä, vallien ulkopuolella

Ps. My Grandma was one of the residents as well. (She was born in Salmi 1923)

Hello Marko! According to Geni we are not related but there is a connection path: Marko Kristian FAGERROOS is your second great grandmother's husband's niece's husband's nephew's wife's great nephew.

My grandmother was born in Leppäniemi, Suojärvi in 1903 and my oldest aunt was born in Sortavala 1922.

I did order that book, so my mother is reading it now!

This discussion has been a mixture about Karelians living in Finland and ethnic Karelians living in USSR.

"So ethnic Karelians living in USSR in the 20s-30s were never part of the Red Army?"

I don´t know. I think it is quite possible, that they were fighting on both sides. Maybe somebody knows better.

My name is Jarmo Levy and my father and his family evacuated themselves from Suojärvi in the beginning of the "Winterwar" November 1939. There were official plans how to evacuate people, but the plans were not carried out at the eastern side of Suojärvi, including the "Hyrsylän mutka" -district. People had to do their own decision either to stay home or be evacuated by themselves.
My relatives, daughter of Klement Levy and her husband, lived in a small village Moisseinvaara near Suojärvi. As the Red Army did not come to this village in many weeks, they stayed home, but became surrounded by the Soviets. Later they were captured and moved to the Prison Camp of Interposelok. At the end of May 1940 they were released and got a train to Finland and lived there until late 1960:s.

Here are a Wikipedia sites about a Finnish commander of the Red Army regiment JR 126 with many ethnic Finns and Karelians
https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valter_Valli
and about a Finnish battalion with mainly Karelians from USSR
https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heimopataljoona_3

In Finnish, sorry.

That's interesting Harry, thanks!
(My dad is Finnish so I understand most of it)

Harry, I find it interesting that you differentiate between Karelians and Finns and Russians. I suppose that Finland only gained independence a generation before so i wonder how many people at the time actually though of themselves as Finns.
Do Karelians in Finland still think of themselves as Karelians first then Finns or has the difference melted away over 100 years?
From what I have read the Soviets seem to have integrated Eastern Karelia into the Soviet system so much as to basically destroy any Karelian identity beyond the name (but that is just my understanding which is not very deep).

"Do Karelians in Finland still think of themselves as Karelians first then Finns or has the difference melted away over 100 years? "

It's the same old theme since nineteen-sixteen
In your head,
In your head they're still fightin'
With their tanks and their bombs
And their bombs and their guns
In your head, in your head they are dyin'
The Cranberries - Zombie

Finland was Swedish for 600 year, from the 12th century until it become the Grand Duchy of Finland under Russian sovereignty 1809-1917, independence from the Russian SFSR 6 December 1917.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland

The overall loss of land, mainly Karelia covered 12 percent of Finlands total area, 30 percent of their energy, 22 percent of the forest reserves and 20 percent of the railways. 12 percent of the population had become homeless, a total of about 440 000 people.

Soviet according to the Journal Kainuun Sanomat tried to sell it back to Finland in the beginnings of the 1990's who refused, because the price was to high, circa 12 billion dollars, and it would cost them five times that to rebuild it. http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=83&artikel=...

Raili Sinikka Hedenquist Married my mothers half-brother, she might or not, have belonged to one of those almost 200.000 Finnish refugees that arrived to Sweden, I would be very happy if anyone here recognize that family name or know anything at all?

The absolutely best source on Karelians (Finnish citizens) in Soviet prison camps is Tasavallan panttivangit (Hostages of the Republic) by Ari Haasio and Erkki Hujanen (Suo Säätiö - Gummerus 1990). There is a list of names who returned, some 61 chose to stay in USSR. Some died on the way to the camps, some at the camps and some right after return. Sorry for the factual error earlier - according to Tasavallan panttivangit the USSR returned 2389 civilians who had not been evacuated and had been kept in prison camps (Kaimoja and Interposolka).

Here is an interview of two of the survivors from Aamulehti last year. http://www.aamulehti.fi/ihmiset/mirja-83-ja-esteri-84-eivat-unohda-...

"So ethnic Karelians living in USSR in the 20s-30s were never part of the Red Army?"

--> Of course they were. Whoever adult male lived in the USSR had to join the military. Lots of leftists from Finland (also from Karelia) moved to the USSR in 1920s and 1930s because they saw it as some kind of a paradise and that was the propaganda spread among communists in Finland. Some of them saw that it was far from paradise and escaped back, but most stayed. And a big part of them were eventually executed or sent to Siberia. But there were of course also Karelians in the Soviet military in WW2.

Alex you asked "Do Karelians in Finland still think of themselves as Karelians first then Finns or has the difference melted away over 100 years?"

Many Karelians in Finland still think of themselves as Karelian Finns. :) One thing to note is that we are talking about 3 different ethnic groups with different native language. In Finland there are two different Karelian groups: those who are from North Karelia (areas now Republic of Karelia in Russia) who speak or whose parents / grandparents spoke Karelian language as mother tongue AND then Karelian Finns from the areas which used to be Finland but are now part of Leningrad Oblast - there language was more like a heavy dialect of Finnish and its spoken still in Lappeenranta and Imatra region. If you ask an average Finn with roots in Karelia if he/she is Karelian or Finn, the question is a bit absurd. Because most people see themselves as both, Karelian Finn is a subgroup of Finns, like Häme Finns. So most people who "care" about their family history would say that "Im a Finn with Karelian roots" or just Im Karelian even if they have not ever lived in Karelia proper. I do not know what Karelian origins people in Republic of Karelia (Russia) would say on this.

I am karelian, and born in Finland, Tulema- village Karelia y1942. Before 1917 this Place wasi a part in Great Duch of Finland, and under the Caiser of Russia. Year 1928 it was part of Finland. ( 1600- 1800 it was a part of Sweden Finland. After last 2nd world- war y 1945 this place depended in to Soviet Union, . where Sovent- Union was also coming plenty live to paradise / eden also Americaner from Canada. Many of them executed afterwar or sends to shool - of - Sibiria, where are plenty very good people living still. It is vere hard school and only hard people managed live here still. Climate of Sibiria etc has studied them to be good people
When I was a young boy I think simpy that I am karelian and finnis
people.

When I am now 2016 older I am thinking that original I juridist- thinking am also Russian, because I have documets from Natioal Arhive of Pedrozavodsk, that my grand- -father- father russain ziticen, born Russian Karelia, and marked up to Finlands Karelia church that grandfather was born in Salmi, Great Duch of Finland. Grand- fatjer- father was russian, living in Rusian- karelia, ad He do not took or moved to Finnish sitizen, nothing up marknins are that He had chanced his nationality.
Karelianer like their home Place and Karelia, so than also russian love their own country, also finnish people like their own country Finland and own born places.
If I should to get russian nationality or take it a douple nations zitecen passport. It is very difficult to get russian nationality, I should to certificate that I can speak good russian language. Many year it should to me to get russian pasport to me from russia maybe from Pedrozavodsk.
Why I should to like got russian passport, is because I am genealogist and it should to be easily to be in Russia when I have russian passport, My home country in Finland I can not hit nothing relatives from My father- lineage, and that is the way, I have only 160 ancients in geni. and total I have marked up 53.000 people to Geni program.

Johan. Heimopataljoonien battle will was weak. Stalin ordered the Ukraine in search of the Finnish-looking men (Division 44). This failed when the Ukrainians do not understand why the Soviet Union attacked Finland.

Finnish Winter War fought in the ranks of the large number of Ukrainians. This survives two Ukrainian historian's writing, which has been published in several saiteilla, also in Ukrainian and Russian.

Winter 30.11.1939-13.3.1940 took place between Finland and the Soviet Union. Historians Denis kovalova and Yuri Jakuba tell Window is the English translation of the Eurasian how the Bolsheviks objected to Ukrainian independence fighter Juri Gorliss-Gorski traveled to Helsinki in 1939 the Soviet Union attacked Finland.

Finland Gorliss-Gorski formed of immigrants and Soviet units stray ukrainalaissotilaista regiment, which fought alongside Finland against the Soviet Union. The regiment was established at the end of january 1940. The set is alleged to have increased to 450 850 man noon the beginning of March.

Raate road battles with the 44th division of the Red Army suffered severe losses. Division consisted mainly of Ukrainians soldiers.

Kovalova and tell Jakuba referring to how many survivor ukrainalaissotilas decided to defect to the other side of the frontier line and join the Soviet Union struggling Gorliss-Gorski topics in Force of the Red Army and Finnish commanders.

According to historians, defected to the Finnish side the Ukrainians did not understand why the Soviet Union attacked Finland.

The Soviet Union suppressed almost any discussion on the Finnish side who fought Ukrainians. Kovalova and Jakuban of the Winter War created a unique situation in which Ukrainians fought on both sides of the front.

At the same time the Ukrainians' willingness to defect to the ranks of the Finnish historians caused by a serious threat to Moscow. They believe that the defectors was affected by a decisive way the Soviet leader Joseph Stalin's decision to end the war.

Kovalova and Jakuba consider that ukrainalaisloikkarit threatened to demoralize the Soviet troops invaded Finland. There was a danger that the Council also other forces fought in the non-Russian soldiers' moral degenerate, and thus would be more difficult to manage the Soviet empire belonged to the non-Russian republics.

Sorry script errors.

Johan. Heimopataljoonien taistelu tahto oli heikko. Stalin käski etsimään Ukrainasta suomalaisten näköisiä miehiä ( Divisioona 44). Tämä epäonnistui kun Ukrainalaiset eivät ymmärtäneet miksi Neuvostoliitto hyökkäsi suomeen.

Suomen riveissä taisteli talvisodassa myös lukuisia ukrainalaisia. Tämä selviää kahden ukrainalaisen historioitsijan kirjoituksesta, joka on julkaistu useilla saiteilla, myös ukrainaksi ja venäjäksi.

Talvisota käytiin 30.11.1939-13.3.1940 Suomen ja Neuvostoliiton välillä. Historioitsijat Denis Kovalov ja Juri Jakuba kertovat Window on Eurasian englanninkielisessä käännöksessä, kuinka bolsevikkeja vastustanut ukrainalainen itsenäisyystaistelija Juri Gorliss-Gorski matkusti Helsinkiin vuonna 1939 Neuvostoliiton hyökättyä Suomeen.

Suomessa Gorliss-Gorski muodosti maahanmuuttajista ja Neuvostoliiton yksiköistä karanneista ukrainalaissotilaista rykmentin, joka taisteli Suomen rinnalla Neuvostoliittoa vastaan. Rykmentti perustettiin tammikuun lopussa 1940. Joukon väitetään kasvaneen 450 miehestä 850:een maaliskuun alkuun mennessä.

Raatteen tien taisteluissa puna-armeijan 44. divisioona kärsi kovia tappioita. Divisioona koostui pääosin ukrainalaisista sotilaista.

Kovalov ja Jakuba kertovat puna-armeijan ja suomalaiskomentajien viesteihin viitaten, kuinka moni henkiin jäänyt ukrainalaissotilas päätti loikata rintamalinjan toiselle puolelle ja liittyä Neuvostoliittoa vastaan taisteleviin Gorliss-Gorskin joukkoihin.

Historioitsijoiden mukaan Suomen puolelle loikanneet ukrainalaiset eivät ymmärtäneet, miksi Neuvostoliitto hyökkäsi Suomeen.

Neuvostoliitto tukahdutti lähes kaiken keskustelun Suomen puolella taistelleista ukrainalaisista. Kovalovin ja Jakuban mukaan talvisota loi ainutlaatuisen tilanteen, jossa ukrainalaisia taistelin rintaman molemmin puolin.

Samalla ukrainalaisten halukkuus loikata suomalaisten riveihin aiheutti historioitsijoiden mukaan vakavan uhkan Moskovalle. He uskovat, että loikkarit vaikuttivat ratkaisevalla tavalla Neuvostoliiton johtajan Josif Stalinin päätökseen lopettaa sota.

Kovalov ja Jakuba katsovat, että ukrainalaisloikkarit uhkasivat demoralisoida Suomeen tunkeutuneet neuvostojoukot. Oli olemassa vaara, että myös muiden neuvostojoukoissa taistelleiden ei-venäläisten sotilaiden moraali rappeutuisi ja siten Neuvostoliiton olisi vaikeampi hallita imperiumiin kuuluneita ei-venäläisiä tasavaltoja.

Anteeksi kirjoitus virheet.

My mother thinks of her self as a Karelian Finn even though she never lived in Karelia (she was born on a refugee camp after her family fled from Russian Karelia to Finland). At the age of 14 she moved to her sister in Sweden and now she's 80 years old. But in her heart she is a Karelian Finn.

Harry Wilhelm Smeds: Is Smeds a common surname? My mother has two dna matches with that name.

Venäläinen kaukainen sukulaiseni Sergei Burkov, synt, Tambov close Moscow, hänen isä on Aunuksen Karjalasta Venäjältä , kysyi minulta vuonna 2011: Miksi te karjalaiset olette sellaisia? ettei teille oikein sovi olla venäläisiä, eikä myöskään suomalaisia? (tätä Sergein mielipidettä ei pidä kuitenkaan yleistää karjalaisista) Vaan olette ikään kuin vain karjalaisia? Sergei Burkov tuntee myös kyllä olevansa karjalainen isänsä juurilta. Hän asuu Englannissa.

Osasin vastata Sergeille, että miksi karjalaiset ovat tällaisia että heille ei kelpaa olla suomalainen kaikille eikä myöskään venäläinen

Heitin pallon hänen ja kaikkien venäläisten ja aito suomalaisten omaan syliin seuraavasti:

Teidän venäläisten ja myös suomalaisten on mentävä ensin omaan itseenne, tarkastelemalla historiaanne ajassa taaksepäin. Te olette mielestäni tehneet karjalaiset sellaisiksi miten te nyt heidät ja kuvittelette.
Esim Alex Moen usein ihmettelee karjalaisia ja kovasti juuri sodista kiinustunut , toivoisin ettei hän sapeleita vaan haluasi uudestaan alkaa kolistelemaan, sillä mielestäni karjalaiset eivät ole sotaista kansaa, vastoin väärien historian kirjoitusten, vaan he ovar rauhaa rakastavia ihmisiä.
Alexin sopisi tutustua karjalaisiin Wikipeasta ja kirjallisuudesta. .

Karjalaa on kautta aikojen valloitettu, esim Hollantilaiset ja Englantilaiset olivat myös omia etujaan valvomassa ja intressejään viime sodissa

Karjalan valloittamisessa. Nämä on kirjattu ylös Historiaan englantilaisten ja hollantilaisten sotajoukkojen osallistuminen Karjalassa, Venäjän vallankumouksen jälkeen Itä- Karjalassa ja Vienan- Karjalassa pohjoisemmilla rintamilla. Jokaisen pyrkimyksenä perustaa erilainen Karjalan valtio. ainakin 4 eri laista sotajoukkoa, oli joilla osalla ei näkemykset ei yhteistä linjaa. Lisäksi venäläiset puna-armeijan joukot, ja ns. valoisten venäläisten joukot.

Karjalaa ja Kuolan niemimaata on siis kautta aikojen yritetty vallata. Ja motiivina on ollut sen rikkaudet. Valtaajat ovat riistäneet sen rikkauksia ja se on ollut motiivina kautta aikojen tähän valtaamiseen.
Tämän on se syy: mikis karjalaiaset ovat sellaisia kun ovat nykypäivänäkin.

Toisaalta on muistettava, että tuohikirjoitusten aikana kerrotaan olleen Karjalaisilla oma suuri valtio ja kuningas. Eli heillä lienee vieläkin tästä johtuen on tunne sisällään olla Karjalainen.

Nuolenpää kirjoitus tuohikäppyröillä ei ole säilynyt, joten emme tunne tarkemmin karjalan muinaisia kuninkaita ja valtiota vielä.

DNA- tutkimus tosin on apuna ja sen mukaan kyllä suomalaisten ja aito alkuperäinen karjalaisten perimä on hiukan erilainen ja ei ole sama.

Venäjän Karjala on luonnon antimillaan rikas maa, mutta rikkaudet tänä päivänäkin valuvat rautateitse ja meritse muihin osiin Venäjää. lähinnä suurkaupunkeihin ja metropoleihin, sekä tavarakuljetuksina meritse ulkomaille raaka-aineina paperin tai vanerin valmistukseen. Näistä korvaukseksi saatua rahaa ei paljoakaan jää Karjalaan, vaan ne menevät muualle Venäjälle jossa on sitä enemmän ta5rvisevia. Moskovaan ja Pietariin.

Very interesting thread! I have been doing extensive research on the border region of what is called Raja-Karjala for the last five years and there are many stories about the border and its impact on the people in this area, which was mainly the north-western border of Suojärvi county, the eastern border of Suojärvi county which was called Hyrsylä-mutka, and also the eastern border of Salmi county.

Quite incredibly before 1920 timeframe, there was an large amount of movement between the Russian and Finnish (which before 1918 was a Russian autonomous region called a Grand Duchy) sides. In fact in some villages the roads into Russia were actually better than any roads that lead west into Finland, and the communities relied more on the Russian side for trade, and religious associations. The border prior to 1918 was in fact invisible in many ways except for taxation reasons.

The border was still quite porous until the late 1920's - early 1930's, and marriages between women and men on each side continued until the mid-1920's. A women on the Russian side would come to her husband in Finland, and Finnish women would go to here husband on the Russian side. The sentence implies differences but in fact the people were all from the same tribe, the Karelians, they just paid taxes to different state governments basically. They spoke the same language, had the same customs, etc., etc. and quite often had extended family connections.

There are many stories about how the border split families in the 1930's, when things got more tight and passing back and forth became much harder, though refugees (or pakolainen) still arrived on the Finnish side from what was now Soviet Russia, and the occasional Finnish person went east to Soviet Russia to follow the dream of the utopian society that was talked about in the propaganda of the Soviets at that time. Life in Raja-Karjala was a tough life, and very primitive in many ways, though things started to improve by the late 1930's just prior to the war, and calls to the utopia of Soviet Russia enticed some people. But despite the tough life there was also a strong sense of community and loyalty in the area, and that ran deeper than the politics of either country.

Someone mentioned above 20 people caught in this area at the start of the Winter War, the number is more over 1,800, with ultimately around 1,700 returning to Finland in May 1940. Originally from November 30th, 1939 to early February the civilian population was allowed to remain in their homes and villages, but in early February 1,768 of these civilian prisoners were taken to two "transit" camps on the Russian side of the border, where they remained until May 25th, 1940. While many civilians died at the camps, and in the two months before, there were also 4 civilians there were taken away at the camps by the Soviets and that were never seen again.

There are many stories about the border, especially smuggling, night time visitors that crossed, and also espionage from both sides. Several residents of Finland were abducted by the Russians on the Finnish side, most in broad daylight, some of these men died in prison camps being accused of crimes against the Soviet state. A wonderful women in her 90's today talked about when being younger, at night if you heard rustling in the bushes you just ignored it knowing it was someone from the Russia side over to see family. Some of the few poignant stories include ones from 1935, when the Soviets liquidated many of the small villages that were very close to the Finnish border, the people being sent to Siberia. The Soviets feeling that these very close villages were a threat to their security as most people in these villages were related, quite closely, to the corresponding villages on the Finnish side. In the village of Posuada on the Russian side, during the liquidation a mother gave her child to her sister on the Finnish side, passing her over the border late at night before they were forced to leave, feeling that she would have a better life in Finland. The reports of that evening say the villagers of Hyrsylä on the Finnish side, heard their cousins on the Russia side singing laments as there were forcibly taken away to Siberia. Another story relates to a women who was caught with the civilians at the start of the Winter War. She lived in the village of Hautavaara and in February was taken away to the "transit" camps, this voyage took some hours in bitter cold weather and some died on the journey but during the start of the journey the convoy stopped at the village of Veskelys on the Russian side, where the prisoners were given some weak soup, and this women then saw her mother and sisters who lived in Veskelys, as the mother had been told that the prisoners were coming through, the mother could only see her daughter briefly but could do nothing to help her and her grandchildren that were with her daughter from Hautavaara. This was the last time this women from Hautavaara ever saw her mother, though she and her children returned to Finland in May 1940.

There are many more stories like this. What I have found very interesting in my research, was that even though after 1920 the border was closed, and truly effectively closed by the mid-1930's, familes, which were mothers and daughters, sisters and brothers, even fathers and sons, somehow were able to keep up on news with each other, even through any affects of Soviet rules, food was sent to the Russian side, and letters smuggled back and forth.

One reasons I believe this was possible is that until the mid-1930's and even after that to a level, the guards and security on the border were in fact also Karelian men, who spoke the language but more importantly were "cousins" of the families on each side. There were of course hard-core believers in the Soviet system, who were Karelian, and they did everything to put down and sabotage the Finnish side, but most were just young men conscripted to serve and who really didn't have a strong attachment to the greater Soviet dream but were Karelians. And of course there was much bribing, and given the harder conditions on the Soviet side you could see how the right items could get you what you needed with regards to news, and passing of letters and information. It is written that the amount of booze that flowed from the Russian side to the Finnish side in turn for flour, and other basic commodities was that it was a river flowing across the border!

The war experience is similar, especially at the start, when you had many Karelians on the Russian side, having to fight their cousins on the Finnish side. Russia had no time for sentimentality, but it also needed Karelian speakers to help. There are stories of Russian soldiers from Karelia, especially those interrogated on the Finnish side, that talked about not understanding the war and the difficulty in fighting their own; there is also much about Russian POWs, especially from Karelia that tried to stay in Finland after the war, many did, escaping the transport trains back to Russia. All POW's were to be returned as part of the peace agreement.

I would also add some information about the time just prior to the war and evacuation of the civilians. This is a rather sensitive subject as I think the truth has never really been figured out. It is known that in the last weeks of November, the civilians on the Finnish side in these border areas were told at one point to pack up and prepare to evacuate west, and most did, and many traveled by train to Suvilahti, where the main train station west was, and other areas but were then turned back and sent home, being told not to worry the war was not going to come. Of course some made their own decisions and went to family or other areas in the west but many did not have that option, not having family, not having money and also not knowing what to do with the livestock, etc. So this lead the tragedy of November 30th, when the Soviets attacked, and these border areas, with very little defense were instantly captured by the Soviets and the civilian population caught behind enemy lines. Some have said this was an intention of the Finnish government, to not give any signal to the Soviets that the Finns were prepared for the attack, though this has not been proven one way or the other. What ever the truth, these civilians suffered much and many died, and ultimately it could have been at a minimum partially avoided if a proper evacuation had taken place.

I guess I will end for now...sorry for the long post!

Alex made a question to me. I think you have got lots of answers already.
But shortly. Before independancy Finland was a Grand Duchy partly separated from Russia. I think during that time we became primarly Finns an secondary Karelians or some other tribes. During Swedish reign Finland was primarly south-western Finland.
Karelia has always been divided between Russia and Sweden.
Karelians in Russia are mainly Greek Orthodotox, in Finland mainly Lutherians, earlier Catholic.

Sofie. There are a few separate Smeds-families in Finland. Surnames in western Finland are quite new. Actually my biological family is Höglander.

to Ulf Ingvar Göte Martinsson, Raili Sinikka Kerttuli Hedenquist ´s father- line in GENi program is marked up today 09 June 2016. We are relatives, greetings Pentti Aleksi Röppänen P.A.R

Yes, I noticed your good work! We are now collaborative partners! Pentti Aleksi Röppänen