Thomas Fleming - Thomas Fleming

His line is documented in Burke's

Do you have a link to the Burke's? Is this the one who was supposed to have been an immigrant to Virginia from a Scots noble background - although there's no record of a Thomas Fleming in VA?

I see a researcher note:

Ursula Keeling

Ursula’s father was not Thomas Fleming--this is an incorrect legend.

"Quite a few family websites carry a tree that asserts that Capt. George Keeling and Ursula Fleming were parents of Ursula Fleming, who married Thomas Henderson. However, I have not seen hard evidence, such as a will or family bible record, of the relationship.

Marsha Gail Veazey can you take a look please?

I don't have access to Burke's. I will be happy to break this where it should be broken. Let me know... Would love to see Burke's though if it is online...

See Thomas Fleming, the immigrant & comments in the overview, including link to Burke's

https://books.google.com/books?lpg=PA218&dq=john+fleming+1st+ea...

John, 6th Lord Fleming (only son of John, ftth lord, by Elizabeth, his wife, only child of Robert, Master of Ross, and grandson of Malcolm, 3rd Lord Fleming, by Johanna Stewart, his wife), was created Eabl Of Wioton, Lord Fleming And Cumbernauld, by patent, dated at Whitehall, 19 March, 1606.

His lordship m. 1st, Lady Lillias Graham, only dau. of John, 3rd Earl of Montrose, and had issue,

I. John, 2nd Earl of Wigton

...

The earl d. 1619: hi» eldest sou. John Flkmtno, 2nd Earl of Wigton, m. Lady Margaret LivIngston, 2nd dan. of Alexander, let Earl of Linlithgow, and bad issue,

I. John, 3rd Earl of Wigton.
ll. William, chamberlain of the h ouschold of CB>rirs* d.
I. Eleanor, m. at Cumbernauld, 23 April, 1650, to David, 2nd Earl of Wemyss, and d. я. p. 20 April, 1652. , п. Anne, m. 1st, to Robert, 7th Lord Boyd; 2ndly, to George, 2nd Earl of Dalhousie, and d. 20 April, 1661, having had Issue.
ll. Jean, m. In 1641, to Sir John Grierson, of Lag, со. Dumfries, and had issue.

In my opinion

Thomas Fleming, the immigrant should be merged into

Thomas Fleming, the immigrant

And the Earls of Wigtown disconnected & merged into their MP's.

"miss" Fleming merged into "miss" Fleming

And Ursula Keeling into Ursula Keeling

A couple of ladies from Wales and England where kind enough to research Burkes for me.

@Marsha. If you dont have access to burks and other info please dont break this line.

Marsha Gail Veazey see Burke's on line above;

A Genealogical History of the Dormant: Abeyant, Forfeited, and Extinct Peerages of the British Empire
Sir Bernard Burke
Harrison, 1866 - Baronetage - 636 pages

The Fleming - Earls of Wigtown are on page 218.

No Thomas.
No Alexander.

Sadly to associate Virginia immigrants is fraudulent pedigree making i find distressing & saddening. Someone took advantage of someone years ago, and fooled them, and that fraud is still in circulation.

Erica Howton and Private User I will make the changes you suggest, Erica. Thanks for the info.

BTW, I didn't add this info. I only made it an MP as I thought there should only be one profile of this person as there was controversy. If anyone would like to take over curatorship, I would be more than happy to hand it over. This is definitely not my area of expertise.

You're doing fine! It's actually good to be looking at it with fresh eyes & be the mediator based on the evidence.

https://archive.org/stream/scotspeeragefoun08pauluoft#page/545/mode...

No Thomas. No Alexander. No emigrants to America.

Sorry - 2nd Earl's children listed on page 550

https://archive.org/stream/scotspeeragefoun08pauluoft#page/550/mode...

There was an Alexander, living in Scotland in 1636

Are the placeholder parents of Thomas Fleming clear enough?

Thomas Fleming's father & Thomas Fleming's mother

Seems as if your notes are clear enough, Erica. Thanks for curating these profiles. :)

@Erica On page 555 Both Alexander and Thomas are mentioned.

https://archive.org/stream/scotspeeragefoun08pauluoft#page/555/mode...

Looks like there is a grandson of the Earls named James, a rector, born about 1630, who had a son Thomas, army officer, born about 1650 ... Wrong generation.

Marsha and Erica, Thank you for getting my family line up to Ursala Fleming Keeling.
Having the DNA is more important than having disputed information.
How do we know Ursala was a Fleming?

I think we don't. :(. Just "tradition" ? (I haven't chased up where the original citation comes from)

This document was the best I found when researching a while back, it's attached to the profiles mentioned in it as a "source" for easy accessibility

http://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000027725418848

Found 7 sites stating there was a Thomas Fleming married to Judith Tarleton.
1st johnmueller.org
2nd Quaker records
3rd usgenweb.org
4th rootswebancestry.com
5th familytreesurnames
6th ourfamtree.org
7th familytree.moores.net

Dennis - what we would need to look at are the records that support the claim. That someone has a name on a tree doesn't make it a fact. Maybe it's true, maybe someone just thinks so, because someone else thought so, etc. Etc. And also the profile dates are important. My suspicion in this tree is that "later" real people had become "computer garbled" with earlier ones ....

Erica I totally agree. There are to many sites stating they are legit.
I find it very Interesting.