Hendrina Smit - African mtDNA (L5) a puzzle.

The mtDNA line as it is on Geni at the moment, leads from Hendrina Steenkamp to Johanna Lavina Steenkamp to Christina Maria Coetzee, b13c8d3 to Martha Maria Symington to Josina Christina Maritz to Josina Christina Marais to Joysina Christina Symington Marais to Private User

Somwhere on this line that originally went back from Hendrina through Hester Smit to Jannetje de Clercq, SM to Sarah Barentsz Cochet, SM/PROG (who, we are told is mtDNA Haplogroup K1a-T195C) it is likely that there is a Slave Woman or her female descendant - because the L5 is one of the most ancient Haplogroup lineages there is, and it never left Africa.

Very exciting stuff!
Do come and help us solve the puzzle if you are connected to this line, or just if your interest is piqued.

The first problem we run into, Private User is that if we track the MtDNA descendants of Hendrina on Geni (using the HistoryLink App) we only find you at the bottom of the line as a living descendant.
If we are going to find cousins of yours on this line to ask if they have/will have their mtDNA tested to help us solve the mystery, you are going to have to fill out the tree sideways somemore :-)

Sharon, The whole lot you mentioned seems to be related to me in some way or other. I have taken the names at random. 1 Hendrina Smit is my 1st cousin six times removed. 2. Sara Barendsz Cochet SM/PROG is my 8th grandmother 3. Joysina Christina Marais is my 5th cousin once removed.

You can check all the other names on me but if I qualify just give me a 14 days warning before hand to give me time to get rid of all the bad? stuff in my blood. It is quite an interesting project. Dries

I had two half brothers on my mother's side..Unfortunately they are both deceased..My mother's sister, Marilla had three sons..I'm sure they wouldn't mind being tested..One of them is interested in the family tree..Getting them to fork out for the DNA testing, might (unfortunately) be another matter...If not,hopefully there are descendants from trees further back, who might be keen...Will have to try & track as many down.

Dries ,,I see your maternal line goes back to Koddo van Guinea....

Lol Martin Andreas Karl (Dries) Potgieter (my 6th cousin) - there's stuff that stays longer than 14 days you know :-)

Danielle - ideally we want to test descendants of Hendrina on other descent lines than yours. ie Her tree needs to be filled out completely for her other children's descent lines - as widely as possible.
Testing your siblings or first cousins will just verify your grandmother's fidelity.
(I think - although I'm new to DNA altogether)

I was thinking about the dates of when ships brought slaves to SA...Are there any listed that mention bringing them in from East Africa?..Or were they just "gathered up" from various areas en-route?....Trying to pin down a specific time frame, this "ancestor" arrived, to see how she would fit into the line...

Yes, that is definitely an important line of research. Private User has been working in this area extensively, so knows more about the subject than I do.

Your best bet is to look at The First Fifty Years Project - also explore http://www.stamouers.com/index.php/people-of-south-africa/slaves (I have drawn attention to dead links there though)

Delia Robertson may know if such information is available

Explore http://www.e-family.co.za/ffy/ui66.htm

My brother and I both had our DNA done, , interesting results, maternal
side our haplogroup was T2b, my results were 64.5% Northern European, 10% British and Irish 4.2 French & German 0.7% Scandanavian 0.1% Ashkenazi 0.1% 18.5 Broadly Northern European 1.3 % West African 0.1 South Asian and 0. 7 % unasiigsigned. So..97.9 i% is European, i also scored pretty high on the Neanderthal 2.7%. my brothers results were slightly more Southern European, higher West African. I found in my tree
Van Mombasa, Van Angola, van Timor, and Groot Catharjn. I believe my 1.3 W.African is now clear to me as is the Asian.
My maternal grandmothers line is Myburgh, Kruger, Vorster, Grobler,
Pienaar, Burger, Van Der Merwe, Prevost, Le Febre, Le Bleu.
Father is, Van Zyl, Wives were Moller//Kroukamp/van Emmenes/Nel/van EedenVan Loveren/Van Adegeest.
On my fathers maternal line...Theunis Botha ( Appel) Snyman, De Savoye.

If you look for all the Van and then a country,( Van Angola even Van De Bout,) you will find the link. I found mine.not in my direct line but in following the different family's in you gene. Pool. Mine was Snyman, , Olifse and one other. After getting my DNA done...I went on the search for the W.African and Asian. I was surprised at the lower % French/Dutch than I would have expected, Gene helped me see how these ancestors were spread across all of Europe. My other ancestors were Irish, Scotch, English.

That's interesting, Shirley - so that makes it likely that our granny Marie le Fébre SM/PROG was T2b.
I've invited you to the mtDNA project too.

According to Geni,I'm maternally descended from Hendrina Smit's half brother,Andries Gous,born from the same mother Jannetjie de Clerq,daughter of Sara Barendz Cochet,yet they were both European-born[which is not to say they were 100% European!]. My link from Jannetjie runs thus: son Andries Gous,his daughter Helena Gouws,her daughter ? van Wyk,her daughter ? Strydom,her daughter Jannetta Nel,her son Jeremias Daniel Naude,my mother's maternal great grandfather...Not sure the males passed on the same mTDNA though-my reading suggests that it has to be an unbroken line of females. My mother's grandmother was also a Nel and her E Cape Naude clan was riddled with other Nels,so the connection was probably reinforced. Unfortunately I am unable to work out which Nel was this grandmother's grandfather as there were so many in the Great Fish River area of the early to late 1800s having already become Methodists-so no nice NGK records.

That's interesting, Alistair Moncur Knox - If you ever have your full DNA analysed, you might be able to help shed light on Private User's full DNA. So keep in touch.

mtDNA is not passed down by men at all - Mothers pass it to all their children, but only daughters pass it on - so an mtDNA result from you will not produce any matches that reveal Hendrina's ethnicity, unfortunately.

That's what I thought-MacFarlane DNA project here I come [my clan]...My sisters/cousins might yield interesting results too,but probably not what one might expect...

Oooh can't wait for the discovery :-) Have fun!
PS - You can be tested for your mtDNA, as you'll share it with your sisters & mother. Your children will have their mother's mtDNA though.

My curiosity was picqued by an interesting discussion on Forum Biodiversity.com. regarding the discovery of an ancient Nubian baby, (ca.500-1400 C.E.) whose MtDNa turned out to be L5a 1a...On the same discussion point relating to this, Egypt was mentioned also...This prompted me to call the company I received my results from to see if they could illuminate my DNA results further..Anyway, the email I received from them last month was just a brief resumé/taster, & I still have to wait a little longer for the fuller, more complete version....So maybe the "slave ancestor" is of older lineage..Who knows..But I'm hoping I soon will!

Have also discovered L5a1a, exists within the Ethiopia Beta Israel community...

Interesting - the Pharaohs? :-)

My 8th great grandfather was Jan Smit, but probably would be of no help in the haplogroup L5 as my mt haplogroup is T2b.

@Shirley & Sharon

My mtDNA belongs to my maternal gran, Isabeau Lebleu. T2b1

Shirley, where did you have your mtDNA test done?

Alexander and Shirley you share the same mtDna grandmother.

Shirley's (mtDNA): Myburgh → Kruger → Vorster → Grobler → Pienaar → Burger → Van Der Merwe → Prevost → Le Febre → Le Bleu

Alexander's (mtDNA): Du Plessis → Potgieter → Steyn → Grobler → De Bruyn → Oosthuizen → Coetzer → Botha → Van Der Merwe → Prevost → Le Fébre → Le Bleu

I tested with FTDNA with my mtDNA given as T2b1.

Peter's correct - you share your mtDNA granny. Nice when DNA confirms our records hmm.
I've added you to the mtDNA project, Alex - and sent you a collaboration request. Interestingly, Geni shows another path to Isabeau for you - so you're related to her more than once.

Hi Sharon, I am only related to Isabeau once. The different surnames on the path you saw were married surnames mixed with maiden names. I cleaned that up and show the maiden names of all my grannies above :-)

Alexander, Sharon is correct. You are related to Isabeau through the male line at least once, possibly more times.

I checked my 23andme DNA relative list and beyond Danielle there is one other person who has the same ntDNA as her. HE is anonymous but I have sent a request to share information and will send a message asking if perhaps he knows what his maternal lineage is.

Go Stephanie! Danielle also seemed to have a conversation with Delia Robertson about her (&your?) connection too. Haven't had time to read it yet though.

on the SA FaceBook page, that is