Georges Jean Rapareillet, AKA Joris Jan Rapalje - Display Name

Hi Alex:
Answering the naming variations question:
See MEDIA:
http://www.geni.com/photo/view/6000000000375036325?album_type=photo...

Joris /Georges was born in a Franch speaking area and baptized as such. date confirmed

He was a Walloon, which is an area of now Belgium.

Just found a very cool map of Wallabout, the Dutch settlement adjacent to Wallabout Bay.

http://bldg92.org/blog/mapping-by-hand-1639-1810/

And this map (buried in the overview) shows his lot on the plantation.

http://bklyn-genealogy-info.stevemorse.org/Image/Map/orig1.jpg

I'm agreeing that the name could be improved. The AKA to me is unnecessary: that should match his Wikipedia name. "Firsf name" as Mike cited from the baptism name. Etc. We have plenty of fields to work with.

I agree with you Alex, there should be a series of discussions.... on both George and Catherine...
I guess we should decide on what to name them.

Parenthetically, I have the suspiscion, based on dates of baptismal records of the Trico family (same parish) that Catalyntje/Catherine was bapitied as "Pasque" Troco and subsequently started being called Catherine when her older sister Catherine died.

There is a copy of a map right on this profile that shows Walabought Bay and where the Rapaljes lived
http://www.geni.com/photo/view/6000000000375036325?album_type=photo...=

It is thought that the Bay namemeans "place of the Walloons" that is, specifically : where the Rapalje's lived.

Mike BTW here we go again ---

http://www.genlit.org/agr/viewarticle.php?id=10

The fraudulent Coligny-Rapalje descent
John Blythe Dobson, 2006

Better check that's not attaching to him still ....

http://media.geni.com/p13/ad/1b/e0/01/5344483c7e27cbed/getdoc_origi...

Great read! Mike you have a knack for legendary ancestors ....

I've updated display name to

Joris Jansen Rapalje

Mike,
Wallabout is from the original Wale bocht, which in Dutch means whale bend.

Any whales in the Hudson River 400 years ago?
Or perhaps the shape of the bay is reminiscent of a whale's tail?

re birth.
The database record is "Acte de naissance / bapteme" which translates as "Birth / Baptism" so while the date is confirmed we still have no idea if it is his birth date or his baptism date, or both?
Is a scan of the record available?

I had started a discussion about birth date separately so rather than repeat myself:
http://www.geni.com/discussions/139491?msg=967780

I like both the maps that have been linked here, what is the source of the black and white one? It has the benefit of showing Joris' plot but without knowing it's date it's hard to consider its worth. The colour map is beautiful and 1637 is right on the money but doesn't seem to have the same resolution .

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/Manatvs_gelegen_...

From Library of Congress c1639

http://bklyn-genealogy-info.stevemorse.org/Map/ED.Plantation.html

This is where the maps come from.

If you back out to the main site I'm sure Steve Morse has more goodies for us

http://bklyn-genealogy-info.stevemorse.org

The names of the kids are a hot mess. :(

My suggestion would be to conform them to Dutch standards. I can give it a try but I need clear good examples to follow; I get confused with when it's supposed to be a -je or a -zen or what.

-je is a female ending of a name, like -y in English, eg Jenn-y is shortening of Jenn-ifer.

-zon is Dutch for son and is added to the end of the father's name to form a patronymic. That being said patronyms in Dutch always end with zon regardless of the child's gender.

To complicate matters -zon is sometimes spelled with a double "o", -zoon or with an "se", either as -sen or even just -se.
There are no hard and fast rules.

Joris Janse could be written as Joris Janszoon without changing it's meaning.

https://archive.org/stream/easterndistricto00armb#page/120/mode/2up

Heres the author of the map with an explanation of how it can only be an approximation.

Rapalje gets prominent mentions

Preferably someone can write this out correctly for one of the sons and one of the daughters, field by field, please?

I know Van Nest is currently spelled this way. I try to represent spelling transitions using birth surname & last name field with alternate spellings in AKA.

I believe Dutch speakers prefer the patronymic in the first name field & Scandinavians in the middle name field, which is massively confusing for us poor Americans. But give me a rule to follow in this generation and I will do my best. Under English common law women were known by their husband's name. We can presume they were baptized in the Dutch Reformed Church but I believe many were actually born at Fort Orange near current day Albany.

I agree the kids names are a mess, i renamed eldest son Jan instead of Jorisen :)

Actually i find it really interesting that they named him Jan not Jean, why would Joris give his son a Dutch version of his own fathers name? Altho as Joris was illiterate perhaps the record keeper followed their own preferences.

There is a section in Joris' about which states children's first names and DOBs in Dutch and then translates to English, no idea how accurate it is tho.

I did a few merges in Joris and Catalnye's ancestors today and also changed several of the women's Last names to match their birth surnames. I don't know how to handle the children but certainl for the ancestors back in the Netherlands the women would never have changed their names to match their husband.

It's a transitional time & frankly I only care for my own ancestors and record matching. :)

Whatever they called themselves at home in the court records (etc) for the Province of New York the women would have "not been recorded" except under their husband's surname.

But don't argue with me in it - go look at probate records and land transfers.

Please post exactly field by field how these names should read if you know.

Alex - it seems clear that whatever Joris' origins he was a New Netherlands man, and all my immigrant ancestors have used the language of their new home, not the ancestral.

Please read my previous post again Erica, i was talking about women in back in Europe only.

As for Jan's name, I just said it was interesting, never said it was wrong.

Oh sure, French and Dutch women retained their father's surnames. I do my best not to work with names where I don't understand the rules. So if you'd be kind enough to do a field by field for the American side I will try to conform the profiles correctly. Otherwise I will leave it.

If and when i find reliable sources i will make changes as i go, likewise for obvious mistakes. When i find questionable situations ill start discusssions

Oh Alex - when you're looking at the French & Dutch be very much on the lookout for the FRAUD ancestry. Some joker strung together a group of improbables & grandiosities, got it published, and it's infected records ever since. The article linked above does Snopes proud but with more disgust & sneering. That's why Mike's baptism record is so important.

Erica, I would recommend revising the names. "Jean" has disappeared as his second name. Plus, "George" is English, not French. Also, I would recommend looking at his parents. His father is recorded on Geni as Rapalje, but that is obviously the Dutch version of his name in Holland. In other words, The father's original name "Rapareillet" does not exist on Geni.
Perhaps we need to review all the names again around these people, and firmly lock them?