Positive Post Fridays

Started by Private User on Friday, April 26, 2013
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I had a nice break through last night on Christophe Jarry dit George and it was due to Smart Matches. Christophe George and Francoise were listed as the parents of several documents I had, but I couldn't find anything on Christophe George in his younger years. Then I got a Smart Match for a Christophe Jarry with a matching wife of Francoise Grioux dit Jolicoeur, with a father Pierre Jarry. Interesting... who's father was Georges Jarry. Ok, coming together! Sometimes common to reference children using the first name of the father. More research.. yes.. Pierre was also know as Pierre Jarry dit George, with many of his children having Jarry-George! Wall Broken!!! Ya for Smart Matches!

Dea, yes. A "non-parental event" is any kind of hidden adoption. The paper records might tell us who the father was legally, but sometimes he wasn't the biological father. But, it can also be a case of assuming from the last name that someone was a father, when really he was a step-father or maybe a maternal grandfather.

Pam, I love your posts. So warm and engaging. They convey a feeling we all have when we are doing genealogy and take a moment to think about what we're seeing.

Danny, extending the tree! I loved your comment, "when I learn it again it will be just as exciting." I'm old enough to know that feeling very well ;)

And Jeff, a breakthrough in French-Canada. How exciting is that? I'm not skilled enough or brave enough to do work in that area. I poke around there sometimes, and it looks to me like Geni still has a lot of connecting to do.

My positive post this week is about incremental progress.

My Svanström ancestors have a family tradition that our ancestor was a Scottish mercenary who settled in Sweden. Plausible, but unprovable I think. A few months ago I connected with a distant cousin in Sweden on Geni. Her family has the same tradition, except that they say this unknown ancestor was the illegitimate son of a Scottish nobleman.

It's my general policy to put everyone through hell while I doggedly run down every lead, no matter how weak or absurd. I might have been tempted to chuckle at this one and move on. But, the fact that two branches have the same tradition suggests to me that it probably goes back to our common ancestor. In this case, back to a man who was born in 1794. So, it's something old enough to be worth researching.

My first thought was DNA. But, no. We have yDNA matches all over the place, Scotland, England, France, Belgium, Germany, Sweden, and Poland. DNA isn't going to work for this one because the "right person" hasn't tested yet.

So, then I had a bright idea. What if the story got confused over the generations? What if it wasn't Jonas Svanström (born 1794) whose ancestor was the Scot? What if it was his wife?

I already knew that his wife's grandfather was bailiff for Sven Duwall, a Swedish baron whose family came from Scotland originally. The baron honored the bailiff by serving as godfather to one of his sons, and it's easy to see that the bailiff's surname (Wåhlstrand) could, maybe, allude to the baron's surname (Duwall). Maybe the bailiff was the baron's illegitimate half-brother? What could be easier?

By luck, another distant cousin on Geni is the admin for a yDNA project for the bailiff's descendants, plus there is another yDNA project for descendants of the baron's Scottish cousins. So, all we needed to do was compare the two results. If there was a match, I'd know we were on to something.

I got the results last night. Unfortunately, there's no match. If I were determined to make the story be true I could come up with all kinds of reasons why the results don't match. But, really, no.

I have to conclude that my wonderful theory just went down in flames. Unless I can find another testable scenario, I have to conclude, for now, that the legendary Scottish ancestor was really a Swedish farmer who worked for a Scottish nobleman. The story got confused over the generations.

Incremental progress. I'm excited by that. My theories only take off about one time in a hundred, but when they do I get a major payoff. So, better luck next time.

I missed last Friday for doing a positive post because I was on vacation. And, because I was on vacation I didn't get to do much genealogy.

(I know, I know, that doesn't make sense to me either. Shouldn't the ideal vacation be a couple of weeks of nothing but genealogy??)

I was in Sedona, Arizona, visiting the beautiful red rocks country there. The town was founded by the Schnebly family in 1902, and named after Sedona Arabella Schnebly. On a whim, I logged into Geni to see if I was related to the founders. Sure enough:

Sedona Schnebly (Miller) is your 8th great grandmother's husband's daughter's husband's third great nephew's wife. That's a complicated way of saying she was married to my 7th great grandmother's brother-in-law's third great nephew.

For the rest of my visit my hosts kept telling their friends, "Justin is related to Sedona Schnebly."

Isn't Geni great?

What about the rest of you? Isn't anyone else having some genealogy fun?

I'm having great fun Justin. Over the years of living in Arizona, I have probably spent six months in Sedona/Oak Creek Canyon, one 12 hour day at a time. I love the place. From I-17 I even came down a bad dirt road once from Schnebly Hill. Always wondered where that name came from.

I couldn't resist either and sure enough my path to Sedona (the woman) looks like a rainbow too. Six colors at least.

Sedona Schnebly is your third cousin five times removed's wife's nephew's wife. :)

Yay for Schnebly relatives!

Danny, our hosts took us for a jeep ride up Schnebly Hill and back down. Beautiful, beautiful.

Ian, it looks like your relationship is much closer than mine.

I have no path to Sedona. :(

But as a result of trying to figure out my Gloucester, Massachusetts relatives I've wandered into the richer part of that town, and discovered some interesting characters, such as

Epes Sargent, VI

Currently my 14th cousin five times removed

The path keeps changing as I build more family connections - I expect it will end up much closer depending on which way I "get there.".

Epes Sargent is your 11th cousin 6 times removed! :)

LOL I don't understand how I can be related to just about everybody I click on, but still can't figure out my Winton line. :(

Epes Sargent is my 5th cousin 5 x removed.

And Erica ROCKS...we have been working together lately....she enters SUPER 'about me's'.....actually fun to read..

I recently found out my Y-DNA signature is R1b1b2a1a2f2. It may indicate being a direct male descendant of an Irish king who ruled during the 4th and early 5th centuries. According to Irish history, a king named Niall of the Nine Hostages established the Ui Neill dynasty that ruled the island country for the next millennium.The signature is extremely common in Ulster, and fairly common in Scotland and western England.

My direct male line is supposed to have come from Western England to the United States, obviously the surname is Cox so I'll have to research the migration patterns from Ireland into England.

"Northwestern Ireland is said to have been the core of Niall's kingdom; and that is exactly where men bearing the genetic signature associated with him are most common. About 17% of men in northwestern Ireland have Y-chromosomes that are exact matches to the signature, and another few percent vary from it only slightly. In New York City, a magnet for Irish immigrants during the 19th and early 20th century, 2% of men have Y-chromosomes matching the Ui Neill signature. Genetic analysis suggests that all these men share a common ancestor who lived about 1,700 years ago. Among men living in northwestern Ireland today that date is closer to 1,000 years ago. Those dates neatly bracket the era when Niall is supposed to have reigned.

Outside Ireland, R1b1b2a1a2f2 is relatively common only along the west coast of Britain.

Matthew Gregory Cox - there were three waves of Scotch-Irish immigrants in the 1700s, the majority of them coming from Ulster Plantation. These were lowland Scots who the British settled in the Ulster Plantation in places such as Antrim, after they took over Northern Ireland. My third great grandparents followed the typical pattern of coming first to Pennsylvania and then going down the Shenandoah mountain range to Virginia. My branch then came up to Ohio, but I have relatives who stayed in the South, moving westward from Virginia into other Southern states. This I know only from the odd Southern DNA matches I have :) I wonder if your male line is also Ulster Scots who came in the 1700s? There is a lot of documentation about these families.

Epes Sargent is your 7th cousin thrice removed.

There is an Antrim, New Hampshire....wonder if maybe some of the Scotch-Irish migrated there?

Hatte, I think you might've misunderstood, we think the Cox line moved to Maryland from western England in 1780s, however its possible some ancestors migrated from Ireland to England between 400 AD and 1749. I will have to research this and find out more information. We lose the Cox line before 1749.

Justin, Sedona is a beautiful place. Better then the Grand Canyon in my opinion Been both places once. Maybe someday will get to go back.

Hattie , there was another wave of Scot's earlier . They came here as prisoners in the middle 1600's and a lot ended up srtaying in the mass and Maine area rather then returning to Scotland.

Private User -- thanks! I had run into something about that but didn't remember it.

Private User - I just wondered since the 1700s were when Scotch-Irish immigrated to America in large numbers due to conditions in Northern Ireland. Sometimes what families claim about their origins is not totally accurate.

My mother said that there was terrible prejudice against the Irish in her mother's lifetime (early 1900s) and that might be why people carefully said "Scotch-Irish" which is an American invention. They are called the Ulster Scots. I know that my mother's mother almost hid her family origins, considering her husband's Mayflower side important but her Johnson-Petticrew side embarrassingly plebian.

So I wondered if your family could have had similar prejudices, but of course they could have been from Western England. I don't have any knowledge of migration from Scotland or Ireland to Western England although I know that some of the Huguenots went first to Scotland and then to England (and then to America).

There's a project on them , on here. I started it before I left and when I cam back go re added to it. I puit some pictures into it. I have more I can add, as I was just opver to the Saugus iron Works the other day and took more pictures of the work area. They also have tours of the house . years ago i was in the house but would like to go in again.Don't know if you are allowed to take pictures inside the house or the musium.The work area and all buildings you can take all the pictures you want and roam around ar will, altho their tour is really interesting as they run the water wheels and hammer out nails and things like that.You can see how the big blower works. Very loud in there!

I have been there so many times I feel like it's home but then it was home to several branches of my family back when it was over 600 hundreds aceas in size , instead of the smaller size it is now! So I always feel like I am going home and walking in my Taylor , Paine , Parker foot steps.

I'd love to see the Saugus Iron Works. I don't know whether the iron works from the Leonard family in Taunton is still extant. I think so.

Back on topic....and I know its not Friday....BUT...my sister in low found a document about a McConihe....a certificate awarded allowing her to be a teacher...and grandmother of my grandmother....

This led to:

John McConihe

A whole batch of Scottish (my former roommate in college would scream if I called her Scotch...it was a Scot or Scottish; Scotch is a 'drink')...

Anyway, I now have about 150 members and descendant of the family...both in New Hampshire (that's why I mentioned Antrim, NH) as well as New York etc.

Those of us who "took back" the negative term applied to the lowland Scots resettled on the Ulster Plantation refer by the American only term, Scotch Irish - saving "Scots descent" for Highlanders. The difference is kilt wearing.:):)

Congrats Fay! I'll have to see if my English descent NH / Maine people intersected anywhere.

BTW the Prisoners of War Scots from the 1660s Judy mentioned are quite interesting. They "assimilated" into the prevailing Puritan culture yet maintained a separate identity as well - a glorious strand for New England.

I beleave they were called Scot Irish , when they Protestant. I beleive a lot of the ones who stayed had to join an established church and pledge loyalty to the King. They were very tough on Catholics back then and for years to come. A lot of them had no home to go too ,also.

I beleave they were called Scot Irish , when they Protestant. I beleive a lot of the ones who stayed had to join an established church and pledge loyalty to the King. They were very tough on Catholics back then and for years to come. A lot of them had no home to go too ,also.

Hattie I don't know if the one in Taunton still exists. The the one in Saugus, then called Lynn, was the first successful Iron Works in the country. When it finally failed it was bought by my ancestor as a farm . A lot of the furnaces and other parts of it were all under ground. Only the old house was visible. They were putting part of Central street in and that's when they discovered what had been buried by time. the road had to be re routed and the site was re created and is now a National Historic site.

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