Ulster Scots people - which profiles?

Erica Howton do you have a lot of Scots-Irish profiles from outside Ulster (Northern Ireland) ? Is so maybe we should start another project Scots-Irish in Ireland.

I will have to study up! I don't know where all those Cunninghams went to when they started leaving Ayrshire in Scotland or where the English Quaker Barnes settled in Ireland.

During the famine in Ireland (1846) the Quakers set up soup kitchens for the poor in town such as such as Waterford, Enniscorthy, Limerick, Clonmel and Youghal.

the number of Quakers in Ireland was small—a mere 3,000 or so out of a population that exceeded eight million. Second, the Quaker population was concentrated in certain areas and was almost entirely absent from the west, including Donegal, Kerry, Clare, west Cork and the whole of Connaught.

I haven't added any Dinsmore ancestors to the project yet. I've been hesitant because I wasn't certain as to how strict the Ulster Scots definition was applied. The Dinsmore ancestors are definitely Scots-Irish, but the first Dinsmore is thought to have arrived from Scotland in the 1670's and settled in Ballywattick, Antrim, Ireland. The first Dinsmore in America is believed to have settled in Londonderry, NH, while later ones came to PA, and the Carolinas. Just wanted to clarify whether anyone felt strongly about how strictly the project should be interpreted?

I think we should be very inclusive & broad stroke in this project. We can refine and focus in smaller regional projects as we learn from the profiles.

Example: a collaborator was working on a Maryland > Kentucky migration and started to find the "common threads" between the families (neighbors, marriage, church membership, business). So we then worked backwards and set up a Southern Maryland families project. And guess what - same families. And then guess what again - groups from the same areas in England, with family intermarriages that go back centuries.

We have a much larger group to deal with here - I believe 75,000 total from Scotland & England to Northern Ireland, and on to America. But we have to start somewhere so let's get them going. :)

I agree. Be inclusive.

Many English families became "Ulster Scots" by settling in Ireland, and following the common migration route to Pennsylvania and down through the Valley of Virginia.

In fact, many Ulster Scots in Pennsylvania can't yet make the jump back to a documented ancestor in Ireland, and even fewer can make the jump back to a documented ancestor in Scotland. Some academics believe that there were as many English as Scots in northern Ireland.

To me, it makes sense to define Ulster Scot by their ethnic identity in 17th & 18th century America, not by making descendants prove an origin in 17th century Scotland.

As Erica says, the point is to be inclusive enough that we capture new information by noticing connections and patterns.

And there were also French & other low country Huguenots on the Ulster Plantation ...

Tell us more about the French and Huguenots, Erica. I have a couple of Ulster Scot lines where French or Walloon would be an easy answer but I haven't seen any hard data about their presence in Ulster.

10,000 came to Ireland. The Duke of Ormond set up a linen business and enticed a linen wizard to come with his families and workers - it's now called "the lost colony of Lisburne."

From http://malseed.com/malseeds/origins/huguenot_info/huguenot_informat...

About 10,000 came to Ireland.  They were not the first.  Some of those who had left France in earlier years were already settled here, though the numbers were small.  In the 1660s, indeed, special inducements to encourage immigrants were offered in Ireland which did not apply in England.  Charles II's lord lieutenant, the Duke of Ormonde, in 1662 sponsored an act of parliament which made it easy for 'Protestant strangers' to become naturalized citizens and freemen of towns and guilds; and grants of land were made to them.  Ormonde himself established a colony of Huguenot linen weavers at Chape1izod near Dublin and groups of wool workers at Clonmel and Carrick-on-Suir.  Most of those who came in Charles II's reign, however, settled in Dublin, where two French congregations were established.  Under James II the act of 1662 was annulled and the pastor of the congregation attached to St Patrick's cathedral was imprisoned. None of the Protestants in Ireland more devoutly wished for the victory of William of Orange and his French allies than the Huguenots.

Detail about Liburne and its families here

http://www.lisburn.com/books/huguenots/huguenots_2.html

A small quibble but this is Dublin and southern Ireland. Very different from the Ulster Scots (or so I've been told). There was also a settlement or two of Germans and Swiss in Munster. These "other Ireland" folks don't seem to have immigrated to America in any numbers. As a group, they tended to settle and merge into the rest of the population. Or not?

I don't know very much but my impression is, it was a colony. They married each other and did their specialized skills. They were hoping to return to France "any moment.". But I'm truncating a hundred year history into a vast generalization. I don't have any of this ancestry that I know of.

In the American lines I've looked at, assimilation seemed to vary by region; Boston Huguenots such as the Paul Revere family assimilated instantly; New Paltz NY is "still" a Walloon enclave.

You're asking a different question now I think?

- How many Huguenots came to Ireland
- of those that came, how many moved on to America

That 2nd number I do not know at all.

No, I agree. That's exactly my understanding. I see it also with Huguenots in London. They kept their own colony in the beginning. They hoped to return to France someday soon. Some of my own Huguenot ancestors spent a few unassimilated generations in London. Others went to America and assimilated immediately. I don't (yet) have any Huguenots in Ireland.

For information about Huguenots in Ireland see project http://www.geni.com/projects/Huguenots-of-Ireland/12955

The Migration of this family was Scotland to Ireland to America so not sure if they fit in but I put story on profile found but it looks they have Scottish and Irish bloodlines. Let me know if they fit her.

John Moses Means, l

My Riddle family came from one of the Border areas of Scotland (My big question is that was Roxburgshire, Peebleshire and Kircubrightshire included in the Ulster Plantation set up by King James?) If you had Ulster Scots ancestors keep in mind the history of Ireland.
Normans: 1177 D'Coursey (Norman) to Ireland (Riddle family to Ireland),
During Queen Elizabeth's Reigh: English to Plantation of Queen Elizabeth
1. Galloglasses (Scots mercinary soldiers) to Ireland, received land as payment for services
2. Hamilton/Montgomery Plantation in County Down: mostly Scots from specific areas of Scotland
3. Ulster Plantation: "inward parts" of Scotland including borders area under King James, English were included but were landowners, Londonderry County and Coleraine County (became Londonderry County later)
4. Irish Rebellion of 1641. This event must not be ignored. (11641 Depositions for Downshire are online) (If Ulster Scots were in Colraine (which was burned during Irish Rebellion) where did they go if they were not in Londonderry during the seige?
5. Seige of Londonderry Apr 18, 1689 – Aug 1, 1689

English were not "Ulster Scots" but many were landowners and had Ulster Scot tenants during the Plantation of King James. The settlement of the Hamilton/Montgomery plantation was not included in the King James Plantation. Counties Antrim, Down and Monaghan were not included in the (King James) Ulster Plantation.

D'Alton, Edward Alfred. History of Ireland: From the Earliest Times to the Present Day. United Kingdom: Gresham publishing Company, 1649. Available on Google Books for free.

(https://1641.tcd.ie/) Depositions of 1641 after Irish Rebellion

• https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/.../Plantations_in_Ulster.PDF King James Conditions for Undertakers (Ulster Plantation)

Find source citations and Ulster Scot Checklist at:

Ulster Scot Irish Research Checklist: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100071791133521 (on my facebook page: Riddell Family of France England Scotland and Ireland

Gwynn's Correction to number 3: There were Ulster Scots landowners but not as many as the English included in the Ulster Plantation.

Oops, correction to number 4: should say 1641 Depositions.
Stayed up too late last night watching old Christmas Movies. LOL>

One More Source Citation for "inward Parts" for Ulster Scot Plantation under king James
A Concise View of the Origin, Constitution, and Proceedings of the Honorable Society of the Governor and Assistants of London of the New Plantation in Ulster: Within the Realm of Ireland, Commonly Called the Irish Society. United Kingdom: G. Bleaden, 1842. Google Books from Harvard University.